Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

[WikiBoy]

The big squeeze is on, fun and bargains for everyone.

For those non ebay watchers who haven't noticed, the retailers are jumping on ebay to try and shift stock, and prices are plummeting. If you pay full retailer whack for something at the moment you are daft, 30% discount will become the norm as they steadily go bust.

Linn dealers are trying to offload stock, which is very interesting, as it is known the company has problems. Even some Naim dealers are panicking.

But it is trade ins and old stock that is mostly being put up and is also mostly going up with no reserve, and going prices are 50% less (equivelent) than last year I estimate.

So the process starts, I will enjoy watching it.

Anyway we have had our fun kiddies, now back to topic.

Now we have a burgioning community of Hi-Fi - AV - DIY forums it leaves a couple of questions.

What do we need magazines and reviewers for now - we can do it ourselves. Hi-Fi masturbation, you know what Marco does to make his valve amps sticky. OK some awkward gits like Marco and me get banned from some forums but so what! everyone has a home. Who can give you the best knowledge about product - the users? the manufacturers? the retailers? or the marketers? it really is a no brainer isn't it!

Everyone in between you and the guy who designs and makes your gear is an on cost - you pay for it, and in this industry that accounts for at least a doubling of the price you pay.

Look at ebay for the changing world. It wont always stay on ebay, monopolies always out think themselves, and manufacturers websites will be good too. But we are getting near to an internet re think and re invent which I am sure will give other possibilities. Still though very few who sell through their own websites are passing the saving to you, must are still keeping a retail price the same as if it was retailed to you. I sell at ebay at 50% off the prices I would use if I went through retail or wanted to keep those margins.

Who can stop it - well you - stand up for yourself. If you want a product approach the *manufacturer* and ask to buy it, refuse to go through a retailer, demand a trade price. Most manufacturers will tell you to sod off, but so what, if they get a hundred calls like that a day and their product is not selling in the shops what do you think will happen

[anthonyTD]

Anyway we have had our fun kiddies, now back to topic.

Now we have a burgioning community of Hi-Fi - AV - DIY forums it leaves a couple of questions.

What do we need magazines and reviewers for now - we can do it ourselves. Hi-Fi masturbation, you know what Marco does to make his valve amps sticky. OK some awkward gits like Marco and me get banned from some forums but so what! everyone has a home. Who can give you the best knowledge about product - the users? the manufacturers? the retailers? or the marketers? it really is a no brainer isn't it!

Everyone in between you and the guy who designs and makes your gear is an on cost - you pay for it, and in this industry that accounts for at least a doubling of the price you pay.

Look at ebay for the changing world. It wont always stay on ebay, monopolies always out think themselves, and manufacturers websites will be good too. But we are getting near to an internet re think and re invent which I am sure will give other possibilities. Still though very few who sell through their own websites are passing the saving to you, must are still keeping a retail price the same as if it was retailed to you. I sell at ebay at 50% off the prices I would use if I went through retail or wanted to keep those margins.

Who can stop it - well you - stand up for yourself. If you want a product approach the *manufacturer* and ask to buy it, refuse to go through a retailer, demand a trade price. Most manufacturers will tell you to sod off, but so what, if they get a hundred calls like that a day and their product is not selling in the shops what do you think will happen

richard,
the problem [IMHO] thats holding people back from doing exactly what you have said here is, they are afraid to put their money down before some [and in most cases] know-all reviewer, or sales man has put his two penneth in and assured them that its the best thing since sliced bread, in other words they dont have enough back bone to judge things for themselves basically!!!!

[WikiBoy]

richard,
the problem [IMHO] thats holding people back from doing exactly what you have said here is, they are afraid to put their money down before some [and in most cases] know-all reviewer, or sales man has put his two penneth in and assured them that its the best thing since sliced bread, in other words they dont have enough back bone to judge things for themselves basically!!!!

No matter what Marx (not Groucho sadly) said revolutions do not happen in a day. Old think dominates, new ideas take time to propogate, some people are more open to change than others.

Community potentially can provide everything you need and take over from the on cost slurpers. I recommend all here to join Wigwam (even though I am banned, which some might say will be a relief) if not a member and look at the bake-off and meetings forum and threads. Users listening to each others kit, borrowing, selling to each other surplus gear, and a lot more of it is happening one to one and not being talked about there.

Come on Marco and other admins start a Bake-off sub forum and establish who is near to each other and encourage meetings and listening evenings. I have said before and will say again if any genuine bake-off wants an NVA product to listen to, what ever it is, if I have it spare you can borrow it for the event.

[anthonyTD]

No matter what Marx (not Groucho sadly) said revolutions do not happen in a day. Old think dominates, new ideas take time to propogate, some people are more open to change than others.

Community potentially can provide everything you need and take over from the on cost slurpers. I recommend all here to join Wigwam (even though I am banned, which some might say will be a relief) if not a member and look at the bake-off and meetings forum and threads. Users listening to each others kit, borrowing, selling to each other surplus gear, and a lot more of it is happening one to one and not being talked about there.

Come on Marco and other admins start a Bake-off sub forum and establish who is near to each other and encourage meetings and listening evenings. I have said before and will say again if any genuine bake-off wants an NVA product to listen to, what ever it is, if I have it spare you can borrow it for the event.

richard,
i think thats a good idea... i used to be a part of a company that had [has ?]a big influence over what some reviewers and dealers would promote and sell, i never felt comfortable in that inviroment, or the person i was in business with for that matter [but thats a diffrent story] eventually i had to make a decision, i got out! i knew from that moment on that what i had decided to do was not likely to make me a millionaire, but it was never all about the money for me anyway, [although i do apriciate it] now, i do pretty much what i like, i take on work that i want to do, and i promote genuinely good products of my own creation and others. i have found that people with any sense will see through all the crap that was related to the type of products and people i used to be involved with, and once you have enlightend them and demonstrated what small bespoke manufactures are capable of, they stick with you, and learn to trust you, that is just as satisfying to me as the money aspect of it....

[WikiBoy]

richard,
i think thats a good idea... i used to be a part of a company that had [has ?]a big influence over what some reviewers and dealers would promote and sell, i never felt comfortable in that inviroment, or the person i was in business with for that matter [but thats a diffrent story] eventually i had to make a decision, i got out! i knew from that moment on that what i had decided to do was not likely to make me a millionaire, but it was never all about the money for me anyway, [although i do apriciate it] now, i do pretty much what i like, i take on work that i want to do, and i promote genuinely good products of my own creation and others. i have found that people with any sense will see through all the crap that was related to the type of products and people i used to be involved with, and once you have enlightend them and demonstrated what small bespoke manufactures are capable of, they stick with you, and learn to trust you, that is just as satisfying to me as the money aspect of it....

Imagine a world where all the techys throw off the shackles of the accountants and money men, the marketing men, the reviewers, the magazine editors and advertising depts and finally the retailers, and joined forums with you lot. And everyone automatically looked at the net for information and community to find where like product was being used and had friends to learn from instead of vultures circling around their wallets. Most techys are banned from forums by the companies they work for in case they mess up the company line in bullshit or show up the marketing men for what they are with some real information for a change.

I am beginning to sound like John Lennon and "imagine"

[anthonyTD]

Imagine a world where all the techys throw off the shackles of the accountants and money men, the marketing men, the reviewers, the magazine editors and advertising depts and finally the retailers, and joined forums with you lot. And everyone automatically looked at the net for information and community to find where like product was being used and had friends to learn from instead of vultures circling around their wallets. Most techys are banned from forums by the companies they work for in case they mess up the company line in bullshit or show up the marketing men for what they are with some real information for a change.

I am beginning to sound like John Lennon and "imagine"

imagine that!
ohh there i go as well, we will have to be carefull they dont program someone to shoot us too!!!

[Nick]

richard,
the problem [IMHO] thats holding people back from doing exactly what you have said here is, they are afraid to put their money down before some [and in most cases] know-all reviewer, or sales man has put his two penneth in and assured them that its the best thing since sliced bread, in other words they dont have enough back bone to judge things for themselves basically!!!!

Anthony, I think that is part of the problem for sure but not the whole enchilada. I am certainly one of the people with backbone enough to make my own decisions but at times this can be difficult. Sometimes the manufacturers and/or distributors manage to shoot themselves firmly in the foot. A recent personal experience when I was looking to change speakers brought this home to me. I will not mention the names for fear of retribution but a little lateral thinking based on what I did end up buying will probably get you the answer.

I wanted to listen to a pair of speakers by maker X. I contacted the distributor only to be told that he only currently had a much smaller model in the country. So I said that I would certainly like to hear that but was really looking further up the range than that. He then said he would arrange for the manufacturer to send a pair of the more upmarket speakers for my evaluation. Two weeks passed with no word, bear in mind the manufacturer is European based, so I again contacted the distributor and basically I got an "I really can't be bothered response". This infuriated me a little and so I grabbed the bull by the horns and directly contacted the manufacturer. I told them what I was trying to do and the difficulties I'd encountered. Their response was even more amazing, along the lines of we don't do enough business in the UK to bother. Needless to say at this point I decided to not pursue the quest any further.

Two different strands of apathy here.

One a distributor who didn't want to put himself out on a maybe purchaser, this I can almost understand as from what I understand most demo models have to be paid for by the distributor.

The manufacturer response just baffled me. They have distribution here that you would have thought indicated a desire to build their market over here. At the time they had an interested customer with £10K burning a hole in his pocket they just shuffled off shrugging their shoulders.

Just my .02

Nick

[WikiBoy]

Anthony, I think that is part of the problem for sure but not the whole enchilada. I am certainly one of the people with backbone enough to make my own decisions but at times this can be difficult. Sometimes the manufacturers and/or distributors manage to shoot themselves firmly in the foot. A recent personal experience when I was looking to change speakers brought this home to me. I will not mention the names for fear of retribution but a little lateral thinking based on what I did end up buying will probably get you the answer.

I wanted to listen to a pair of speakers by maker X. I contacted the distributor only to be told that he only currently had a much smaller model in the country. So I said that I would certainly like to hear that but was really looking further up the range than that. He then said he would arrange for the manufacturer to send a pair of the more upmarket speakers for my evaluation. Two weeks passed with no word, bear in mind the manufacturer is European based, so I again contacted the distributor and basically I got an "I really can't be bothered response". This infuriated me a little and so I grabbed the bull by the horns and directly contacted the manufacturer. I told them what I was trying to do and the difficulties I'd encountered. Their response was even more amazing, along the lines of we don't do enough business in the UK to bother. Needless to say at this point I decided to not pursue the quest any further.

Two different strands of apathy here.

One a distributor who didn't want to put himself out on a maybe purchaser, this I can almost understand as from what I understand most demo models have to be paid for by the distributor.

The manufacturer response just baffled me. They have distribution here that you would have thought indicated a desire to build their market over here. At the time they had an interested customer with £10K burning a hole in his pocket they just shuffled off shrugging their shoulders.

Just my .02

Nick

If you want to do something then do it. If it was in Europe how far was it to go to get a dem and make a purchase. £10k is a lot of money to worry about a trip to Europe to listen, and have a break and a look around. British are just sooooo parochial.

[Nick]

If you want to do something then do it. If it was in Europe how far was it to go to get a dem and make a purchase. £10k is a lot of money to worry about a trip to Europe to listen, and have a break and a look around. British are just sooooo parochial.

That's an incredible answer !!

So you think that I as a buyer spending a fair amount of money should travel to Europe just to audition something which has distributorship over here ?

Surely this is the job of a distributor. Coupled to which why would I invest my hard earned buying a product from a company that obviously didn't give a flying fig ?

Then we also come across the warranty issues, in the event of a problem I'm going to have to stump up for shipping to Europe instead of local (UK) support ?

It's not a question of wanting to do something more akin to having a dog and wagging it's tail for it.

[WikiBoy]

That's an incredible answer !!

So you think that I as a buyer spending a fair amount of money should travel to Europe just to audition something which has distributorship over here ?

Surely this is the job of a distributor. Coupled to which why would I invest my hard earned buying a product from a company that obviously didn't give a flying fig ?

Then we also come across the warranty issues, in the event of a problem I'm going to have to stump up for shipping to Europe instead of local (UK) support ?

It's not a question of wanting to do something more akin to having a dog and wagging it's tail for it.

Do as you wish it is none of my business. It just seemed it was important to hear them so I made a suggestion. The Hi-Fi industry owes you nothing and doesn't have to perform and wag its tail to your whims. There are many things we can't buy for one reason or another, it is not the end of the world.

Anyway I hope you enjoy what you have now, if they don't get your business it is their loss.