Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive 'preamp' winging its way to Marco Towers...

[lurcher]

Checking that spec, the conductor to conductor capacitance is 55pf/M, and the conductor to screen is 90pf/M. If its wired so the screen and one of the conductors is ground, then the total capacitance will be 145pf/M. If a passive was made around a 100k attenuator (for example), the total resistance to ground and so the source impedance will be something like 50k, So that, driving into 1M of 145pf/M cable would have a -3dB point of 22kHz, I would expect that to be heard as the roll off will be into the audible range, 0.5M of the same cable will double that frequency so 44kHz, far less likely to be heard. At the other end. If Marco's pre has a 20k shunt, then lets guess a driving resistance of 15kHz. And lets assume the cable was wired with both conductors signal, and screen to ground, so the capacitance was 90pf/M, then the -3dB point would be 118kHz, unlikely to hear that.

So my point is that cable could, depending on the passive and the way the cable was used, have a audible difference or not between 0.5 and 1M lengths.

I agree, that the numbers don’t give the whole story in many cases, but often they do.

[Marco]

I kind of follow where you're coming from Nick, and certainly agree that the numbers don't tell the whole story.

I was simply responding to the idiocy of someone who, in no uncertain terms, was TELLING me that the cables I had were too high a capacitance for use with my passive preamp, when the idiot in question clearly had no idea what the capacitance measurements were for the cables I was using!! With complete ignorance, he just blurts out any old shit to further his stupid agenda

Anyway, all I indisputably *know*, because I trust my ears, is that I can clearly hear (although it's far from disastrous) the deleterious sonic effect of moving from using 0.5m interconnects, to 1m ones, with the Goldpoint - and I suspect that's got far more to do with passives, in general, by their very nature, preferring the shortest lengths of cable possible, than anything relating to the 'bodged' capacitance value of the Klotz cables I'm using.

However, I'm more than up for being proven wrong on that one, as at the end of the day I'm far more interested in ensuring that my system sounds as good as it possibly can, than winning an argument on a forum!

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

I was simply responding to the idiocy of someone who, in no uncertain terms, was TELLING me that the cables I had were too high a capacitance for use with my passive preamp, when the idiot in question clearly had no idea what the capacitance measurements were for the cables I was using!! With complete ignorance, he just blurts out any old shit

Why even mention the party concerned?
I wouldn't, as they see it as validation for being as objectionable on the internet as they are.
It's been 35 years since the Linn/Naim thing left them in the dirt, and still the bellyaching goes on....

[awkwardbydesign]

Yes, for sure, but I get the feeling that Dave's attempting to obtain some sort of 'definitive' answer on this, by following what I've done, and that's simply not going to happen. You can get some clues, but ultimately he must judge things for himself in his own system.

Just because in my system, to my ears, I can hear the detrimental sonic effect of using 1m length interconnects, with the Goldpoint (compared with 0.5m ones) doesn't mean that he will too, with his NVA cables and equipment, which may react in a different way. There is no real correlation here - and that's my point.

Marco.

Don't forget, we are all trying to make sense of what we hear, and why, in different ways. Those with a scientific or technical bent will try to use that system to understand and rationalise what you describe. Others will just try things without a technical rationale, but we all speak different languages. I sit somewhere in between, but any description will be a pale imitation of the actual experience. Religion*, philosophy and science are just different ways of trying to make sense of the universe, and none of them come very close.
If we can all make allowances for this we can all gain. And I do include myself, as I am as prone to frustration as anyone.
* Perhaps I should say spirituality, as religions tend to become a means of control.

[Marco]

Why even mention the party concerned?
I wouldn't, as they see it as validation for being as objectionable on the internet as they are.
It's been 35 years since the Linn/Naim thing left them in the dirt, and still the bellyaching goes on....

Lol - I know! I also know that I shouldn't mention the party concerned. Most of the time that's what happens, and I simply allow said party to wallow in his blinkered stupidity, but sometimes when said party is talking such utter unadulterated cack about something that you're doing with your system, you just can't help wanting to steam in and introduce a soupçon of reality!

Anyway, I promise I'll be a good boy during this thread from now on and leave the malcontented old tit (who suffers from chronic Metaphysical Solipsism) to his own devices

Marco.

[Marco]

Don't forget, we are all trying to make sense of what we hear, and why, in different ways. Those with a scientific or technical bent will try to use that system to understand and rationalise what you describe. Others will just try things without a technical rationale, but we all speak different languages. I sit somewhere in between, but any description will be a pale imitation of the actual experience. Religion*, philosophy and science are just different ways of trying to make sense of the universe, and none of them come very close.
If we can all make allowances for this we can all gain. And I do include myself, as I am as prone to frustration as anyone.
* Perhaps I should say spirituality, as religions tend to become a means of control.

We're getting rather deep now, Richard, but I do share your sentiments

Marco.

[Marco]

Anyway, in terms of a super-low capacitance cable, what about this stuff from Belden: http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/60...0F-CABLE-Black

Capacitance: 39pF/m core to core, 85pF/m core to core+screen

Or the Low-Cap version of this Van Damme: http://www.vdctrading.com/content/Va...lverseries.pdf

Both of those those seem pretty low-cap, Nick? Or if you (or anyone else) knows of a lower capacitance cable, then let's have some relevant links. I can see another 'AoS special' being born from this: the best SPPV cable for use with a passive preamp... Bring it on!

Marco.

P.S I will get some of the Belden (above), fit some MS Audio plugs to it, and try it against the Klotz, using the Goldpoint passive as a reference, and see what happens. I've also got some SSCs winging their way to me, so we'll see if those are as good with passives, as balloon-boy, A.K.A. 'Old Helium Head' says!

[Joe]

Religion*, philosophy and science are just different ways of trying to make sense of the universe, and none of them come very close.

I think science comes closer than the other two (though of course it began as a branch of philosophy). I'm not sure what, if anything, religion brings to the party.

[Ali Tait]

Cool frocks?

[Joe]

Cool frocks?

Fair enough, though I'm not sure how they enable us to make sense of the universe.