Sound HiFi and Dave Cawley...strange customer service.

[Marco]

Hi Adam,

I think this is where individual perception comes into play. I read Dave's answer as him not being able to comment on which of the upgrades Chris asked about would be the best because the parts Chris has modified his SL-1210 with are from a variety of manufacturers, some or all of which Dave isn't familiar with.

Yes, that's one way of interpreting it. The key, however, is that's not how the potential customer did. It still doesn't excuse his remark about 'mismatched mail order components'. That comment wasn't constructive, and indeed was completely unnecessary.

Therefore how would Dave be expected to know what they sound like, and thus advise best on a change?

Sure, but by the same token, due to that lack of knowledge, he shouldn't presume to judge the turntable that Chris has - and worse - deem that an SME T/T and arm combination was better, when he had no proof that was the case

That said, I do agree that the tone of the response as it has been reproduced is somewhat curt and dismissive and not what I would have expected from Dave based on my own dealings with him.

That's the whole crux of the matter, and as Chris said, if DC had been more pleasant and simply made some recommendations about the Oyaide mat (that he DOES have experience of), which Chris was enquiring about - indeed it was the whole point of him contacting DC in the first place - then it's very likely that this thread would never have seen the light of day!

Marco,

[paskinn]

This is an unpleasant threa in my opinion. One specific dealer has been singled out, and all sorts of remarks made about him, simply because he gave a brief, straightforward reply to some complete stranger who e-mailed him.
It may or may not have been 'good business' but no one has been given poor service or cheated in any way. Mr Kemp is not even a customer of the dealer in question. Dealers get flooded with E mails these days, many from people who are near professional 'time wasters'. They are free to choose how they respond, just as potential customers are free to make judgements accordingly.
I know a very successful dealer who has begun actively discouraging some potential customers, because he thinks they are too much potential trouble. His choice.....I suspect there are far more awkward and unreasonable customers than unreasonable dealers. People making a living have to make decisions about how they use their time, and the target group,of customers.
None of whic is to suggest Mr kemp is unreasonable, he just needs to find a more sympathetic dealer....

[Marco]

This is an unpleasant threa in my opinion.

Well, Peter, with respect, you would say that, given that you're an acknowledged SME 'fanboy', and so anything written that's remotely critical of SME makes you bristle (as it also does on pfm, where you jump in and do the same thing, whenever you feel that your 'pet company' needs defending).

Plus, a good friend of yours is a dealer and has given you trade prices on your SME kit, therefore it's patently clear where your 'sensibilities' lie...

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm afraid this situation smacks all too much of someone thinking that they 'know best', when at the end of the day, the only 'best' that matters is what the end user/customer considers as such!

Marco.

[Marco]

Message to DC: do you want me to temporarily un-ban you, so you can come here and defend yourself from the accusations made? If so, that's not a problem, as I have nothing to hide and can ably reply to anything you have to say.

Otherwise, with you responding 'over there', if I quote you here and reply (which I'm perfectly willing to do), I'd be breaking the rules again...

Marco.

[Clive197]

I would like to add my two-Penny's worth.

1. As a now retired HiFi retailer I can tell you that a larger than you think percentage of potential customers are just plain hard work (I'm being polite here). That is a Dealers lot and there were times I would have liked to publicly shame some of them (customers) but it's not possible and unprofessional so hay-Ho. While we often talk about synergy with components, I think this also applies to the relationship between dealer and customer. If a dealer upsets you(for whatever reason), build a relationship with another dealer.

2. Regarding the point re high margins on SME. It is not unusual for a supplier to offer better prices to dealers who physically stock and sell there products in any form of volume. In fact that is normal in many trades and I see no problem with a dealer having faith in a particular product and pushing them accordingly.

As for the rights or wrongs of this particular thread I must admit to sitting on the fence and watching from afar.

[Thebiglebowski]

Well, Peter, with respect, you would say that, given that you're an acknowledged SME 'fanboy', and so anything written that's remotely critical of SME makes you bristle (as it also does on pfm, where you jump in and do the same thing, whenever you feel that your 'pet company' needs defending).

Plus, a good friend of yours is a dealer and has given you trade prices on your SME kit, therefore it's patently clear where your 'sensibilities' lie...

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm afraid this situation smacks all too much of someone thinking that they 'know best', when at the end of the day, the only 'best' that matters is what the end user/customer considers as such!

Marco.

I'm in no way an SME fanboi but think this thread is bang out of order. You are openly slagging off a dealer based on second-hand and possibly biased info. The dealer has no comeback here and what's to say (and I'm not saying he does) the OP has an axe to grind or is a competitor of this dealer.

You banned him and are now freely slagging him off, don't know about here but most forums have a rule about not discussing banned members.

If I was that dealer I'd be looking at legal action for defamation. Doesn't put the forum in a great light either.

[Marco]

1. As a now retired HiFi retailer I can tell you that a larger than you think percentage of potential customers are just plain hard work (I'm being polite here). That is a Dealers lot and there were times I would have liked to publicly shame some of them (customers) but it's not possible and unprofessional so hay-Ho.

Precisely (see emboldened text). However, don't get me wrong, I know that it also applies the other way round, and some 'customers' are a royal pain the arse! I too used to be in hi-fi retail (when I worked for Bill Hutchinson, in Glasgow, and Acoustica, in Chester). However, I don't think Chris qualifies as one of the above.

While we often talk about synergy with components, I think this also applies to the relationship between dealer and customer. If a dealer upsets you(for whatever reason), build a relationship with another dealer.

That's a good and very valid point. However, I don't think it excuses DC's poor attitude in this case.

2. Regarding the point re high margins on SME. It is not unusual for a supplier to offer better prices to dealers who physically stock and sell there products in any form of volume. In fact that is normal in many trades...

So, in effect, DC could be getting a more attractive margin than normal, from SME, simply because he shifts a lot of their kit? I have no problem with that whatsoever, but it certainly adds to his incentive for selling it. After accepting that fact, then one can make of it what one wills.

Marco.

[Marco]

I'm in no way an SME fanboi but think this thread is bang out of order. You are openly slagging off a dealer based on second-hand and possibly biased info.

Nope, the OP (not me) has chosen to relate his valid experiences, and I'm simply commenting based on the FACTUAL knowledge I have about the man in question, much of it based on my personal experience of dealing with him, so what should I do, just shut up and say nothing?

The dealer has no comeback here and what's to say (and I'm not saying he does) the OP has an axe to grind or is a competitor of this dealer.
You banned him and are now freely slagging him off, don't know about here but most forums have a rule about not discussing banned members.

In reference to the dealer having no comeback here, that's precisely why (if you scroll back) you'll see I've offered to temporarily un-ban him, in order to allow him to defend himself against the accusations made. If he chooses not to take up that offer, then I can either ignore his responses elsewhere or publish them here and reply to them. I'm not that bothered which one happens.

If I was that dealer I'd be looking at legal action for defamation. Doesn't put the forum in a great light either.

That's your opinion, which you're entitled to. However, as a newish/irregular member here, you're obviously unaware of the 'history' between DC, AoS and some of its members, and so not best placed to offer a considered opinion on that matter. As for action in reference to defamation - you can't defame someone simply by telling people the truth about them!

Marco.

[Marco]

Ok, I think that Chris has had his say now, and the reality of the situation, and who's at fault here, is patently obvious, so it's time to draw this matter to a close.

I will not be dragged into the situation any more, or respond to any of DC's further input elsewhere, save to comment on this:

Why is Marco so very paranoid about me loosing business ? I sell as he says, shed loads of stuff to sheepish AoS members. I'm not remotely poor and I turn down product lines every month, I don't need any more sales.

All this stuff he spouts only increase my Google ranking.

"I'm not remotely poor" - what's that got to do with anything??

Actually, it says rather a lot about you and where your priorities in life lie (i.e financial advancement, uber-alles)! IMO, you're a disgrace to the audio industry and a perfect example of a parasitic dealer element, infecting and sucking the life out of it.

Note the 'me, me' tone, about Google rankings, etc, in what DC has written above, together with his sheer arrogance. That sums him up. It's also interesting what he thinks of AoS members, so perhaps you "SHEEP" may want to bear that in mind in future before handing your hard-earned cash over to him?

The disdain shown towards AoS members is also something else that he has in common with MCRU, if you remember what he was banned for, which is why, as I said earlier, those two are cut from the same cloth.

Most importantly, however, no apology from DC offered to Chris, or even an attempt to understand that how he treated him was wrong!

Anyway, hopefully Creepy Cawley has learned his lesson now, and in future will temper his responses accordingly to his customers. If not, the ever-watchful eye of AoS will be there to report on it - and that's a promise

<Kirk out>



{Picture posted by me, stolen from 'elsewhere', as I like the legs!} Cheers, jam-rag/fanny pad

Marco.