Apple Snow Leopard.. A cheap hi-fi upgrade?

[DaveK]

Hi Guys,
Just my two penn'orth so don't let it start the aggro going again, but isn't it a case of the interface between the organic and the inorganic, or between the live and the dead.
Put another way, if everyone's ears were physically and organically identical in every way, we would all hear the same sounds in the same way and report the same findings but, given that no two pairs of ears are ever identical in any way (let alone the fact that any two ears on any one person can be reliably said to be identical), we are all going to hear things differently. The sounds may measure identically on the outside of the ear but once they enter the ear canal things begin to change. So it must all be subjective and nothing else matters - the only thing that all of us are really interested in is how it sounds (or measures if you prefer) between the ears.
Pretty obvious really - why did I find the need to post it?
Cheers,

[Chippy_boy]

Hi Guys,
Just my two penn'orth so don't let it start the aggro going again, but isn't it a case of the interface between the organic and the inorganic, or between the live and the dead.
Put another way, if everyone's ears were physically and organically identical in every way, we would all hear the same sounds in the same way and report the same findings but, given that no two pairs of ears are ever identical in any way (let alone the fact that any two ears on any one person can be reliably said to be identical), we are all going to hear things differently. The sounds may measure identically on the outside of the ear but once they enter the ear canal things begin to change. So it must all be subjective and nothing else matters - the only thing that all of us are really interested in is how it sounds (or measures if you prefer) between the ears.
Pretty obvious really - why did I find the need to post it?
Cheers,

Fully agree with all of that Dave

[Spectral Morn]

Neil, with the greatest respect, I think you COMPLETELY misunderstand.

I am all for things that sound better. Of course, why wouldn't I be???? It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

But if we are to agree that something sounds better, then surely the most basic fundamental test is that we should be reliably able to say that it does actually sound better! Not with instruments, but with our own ears? We should be able to listen to "A" and compare it to "B" and be able to

(i) reliably tell the difference! and
(ii) reliably prefer one to the other

Is that too daft an aspiration? Surely no-one can think that it is?

No-one can claim that mp3's sound better than cd's because they just don't. And we can test it. You can play a whole bunch of mp3s to a whole bunch of people and *reliably* people can tell that the cd sounds better. It's a testable, verifiable fact. With peoples' own ears.

That's really what this is all about. Not scientific measurement.

In my own case, I have no difficulty doing this and to assume that others don't share my abilities is limiting, both of the discussion and ones understanding of others approach to audio. Frankly I am sick of the double blind listing test etc(which I believe you are hinting at here) and that myself or anyone else should have to prove ones abilities just to satisfy someone else's prejudices in listening. This is a tired circular argument/discussion that without practical application is pointless.

If you had been present during the events that are the topic of this thread and could not hear the effect then what are we to take from that ? That one persons hearing skills are better than another's no more no less, IMHO. However there are those who even when they hear the thing prefer to cling to their closed dogma and refuse to admit it (I am not talking about you Chip as such here as i don't know you, but others I have encountered on forums who are very selective if not blinkered)....I struggle with that, why should anyone be so closed ?

Bottom line though, is you could have worded your comment better...thus avoiding some of the tone of the last number of posts.


Regards D S D L

[Marco]

Marco, I think perhaps you should read these posts and comment on what's actually said, rather than what you think might have been said. It's you who brough this whole "you're fooling yourself" statement into the thread, not me.

Eh??

The whole of my previous post was based on what you wrote earlier:

In all seriousness, if my point is "you're fooling yourself", how would you suggest I make that point?

You brought up the 'fooling yourself' thing, not me. The point is you don't say that sort of thing to people in the first place; it's rude and more than a little disrespectful, not to mention condescending. You are not 'superior' and therefore in a position to judge others. Perhaps you don't mean to come across like this?

Anyway, regardless of who said what, 'poking' people who don't share your way of thinking with hi-fi, no matter how seemingly well-intended, is not something we welcome here, unless it's done in a tongue-in-cheek way where both parties know each other and share the same sense of humour. Your earlier remarks clearly do not come into that category.

Therefore it's up to you whether or not you can tailor your future responses to allow for the above and put your point across constructively without getting people's backs up.

Marco.

P.S Hear, hear Neil! I agree completely with everything you've just written above. Only those who truly 'get' this will genuinely fit into our community.

[Spectral Morn]

Fully agree with all of that Dave

But that is not what you said Chip. It may however be what you meant to say though. The problem with forums and the written word is that it does not always appear on the screen as you meant or wanted it.


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

Can I suggest we return the thread back to the topic Lovejoy wanted to discuss.


Regards D S D L

[Ammonite Audio]

Can I suggest we return the thread back to the topic Lovejoy wanted to discuss.


Regards D S D L

Yes please!

If streamed audio sounds better because of Snow Leopard, then fine!

I do have the Snow Leopard upgrade coming from Apple, and I'm hoping that it might allow any audio to be streamed over an Airport Express, not just from iTunes, via the speaker select drop down thing at the bottom of the screen. It seems bizarre that my iTunes library played through Front Row cannot be streamed over the wireless network, when iTunes itself will do just that.

Can any Apple Geeks out there tell me if you can choose the audio output device in the System Preferences of Snow Leopard?

[SteveW]

Can I suggest we return the thread back to the topic Lovejoy wanted to discuss.


Regards D S D L

Please.
Its really quite important to me. Having dipped my toe in the waters of 'computer audio' I really want to hear other views about the merits of Apples latest OS.
A dealer I trust and who has helped Linn to evolve their DS systems discovered that Windows machines ripping FLACS was able to demonstrate that it produced better sonics than an Apple machine ripping FLACs and Apple Lossless.
And he, like me is a huge Mac fan.
It lead me to belive that there was something inherently 'wrong' with Core Audio.
At some point next year I will be investing in a Linn DS system ,and up to date thought I was also going to have to also invest in a small PC to rip and stream signals.
I would far rather do this from a MAC, although sadly (or maybe not) it will mean upgrading my G5 iMac, to run Snow Leopard..
Steve
(thanks for getting back on track)

[Spectral Morn]

You are welcome Steve


Regards D S D L

[Chippy_boy]

P.S Hear, hear Neil! I agree completely with everything you've just written above. Only those who truly 'get' this will genuinely fit into our community.

You seem to be hell bent on a community of like minded individuals, Marco.

I am sorry if I have caused any offense to anyone, and I really sincerely doubt if I have.

I have questioned whether what people think they hear is real, and never whether what they say is genuine.

I have my own views of whether what they do hear is real - and I have expressed it here.

I think the moderators here should seriously consider whether this sort of constructive criticism - and it IS genuinely constructive - is what they want. Or do they want every post to be a "yes I agree" post. If the latter, the forums will be all the worse for it, imho.

@Dalek - I see no inconsistency in my posts.

At no time do I question peoples' proberty nor what they think they hear. The red wine example I gave earlier I think is a reasonable one. There can be a general consensus about whether something is true, without it actually being true. It doesn't mean anyone is being stupid nor lying and I would never suggest either.