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Thread: Cassette's Not Dead, Apparently!

  1. #241
    niklasthedolphin Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Nikitin View Post
    Hi Dolph,

    Here is a link to an article about HX-Pro, what it is, how it works and what is the difference between HX-Pro and "Dolby HX" (not "Dolby HX-Pro" (!) ) - written by the authors of that system.

    You'll need DJVU viewer on your browser to open it.

    I think it will clarify most points for you.

    Cheers

    Alex

    P.S. HX-Pro on a R2R would be engaging at much higher levels and frequencies so it should have considerably less noticeable effect on the low level dynamics than on a cassette deck (and even there it is only very slightly noticeable). And again - the implementation is very important.

    P.P.S. - the site by Alexander Vostokov about magnetic recording is highly recommended - lots of information, old advertising and reviews there - mostly in English, some in Russian.
    Thank you for the link to this article.
    It explains in simple terms how the technology works.

    I must agree that the article clearly states that HX-pro was not befor HX or even Dolby HX.

    I can though supplement with the fact that B&O signed up for the patent of HX-Pro.

    That must, according to the article, have been later than the patent of HX.

    Dolby HX, as the licenced edition of HX-Pro have likely carried on being called, was a simplyfied and less effctive or less quality edition of the HX-Pro according to other trustworthy articles there is to be found on the net (with reference to sources like this article has in the end) as well as according to this article.

    Problem is that this article also states that HX-Pro got it's name from Dolby HX.
    This makes history of this technology a bit complicated.

    There are machines on the market dating to the time after HX-Pro was implemented on many machines, that also have the writing of Dolby HX on them - and there are machines having the B&O patented HX-Pro writeen on them.

    Another point; as it clearly states in the article you are linking to:
    "This lowers over all distortion......................"
    ".............permitting higher recording levels and better S/N ratio without audible distortion at unexpected peaks in the audio signal"

    This is the side effect I was writing about and the reason B&O at some point launched HX-Pro as a (single ended) Noise Reduction System.

    From this article at some official B&O site, you can read:
    "I said above that HX Pro is the only system that keeps dynamic bias constant However, the original Dolby HX circuit had many of the same properties. But the facts are that while Dolby HX restores some of the dynamic range available on cassette tape that is otherwise lost by the automatic compression mechanism referred to above, it does so in a convoluted fashion with for example a control signal derived from a Dolby B circuit, and is simply not as effective. In addition, the Dolby circuit is mono, where the B&O circuit, which works quite independently of any noise reduction circuit in the system, is a true stereo device, operating quite independently on each channel."

    and furthermore:
    "The HX Pro circuit is permanently connected, which is sensible enough given its function. "

    This verify that HX-Pro is a better working solution than Dolby HX.
    And this is also what I was told by the technical department of Bang & Olufsen at a visit.
    (B&O and I are both Danish)

    From another site on the web about noise reduction:
    "Dolby HX Pro
    Like Dolby HX not a noise reduction system per se, it's a headroom expansion system that also helps the deck to record high frequency sound without distortion when used in combination with a NR system by controlling how high frequencies are recorded onto the tape, thus enabling the noise reduction system to perform much more effectively since there is less danger of tracking errors, slightly less tape saturation effects audible as well when it's used. It can be very effective and is single ended, i.e. it needs only to be used while recording, especially effective when used with cheap ferric tapes that display an uneven HF response and in particular when recording from the radio were MPX tones interfere with the NR tracking. Not developed by Dolby Laboratories at all but by the Danish company Bang & Olufsen and it archived all that the original HX system set out to do, but it's simpler circuitry and the fact that it worked much better with cassette tape recorders than Dolby's system meant that the company gave up on it's own system and licensed the Danish system. Only available as a part of a dolby NR license and built into a recorder, it's not possible to build it into a codec."

    What do you think about history of this system after being "forcing me" to spend time on reading the article you linked to, my comments and the link I gave you?

    My judgement: Dolby HX and HX-Pro is not the same, although alike and although developped at about the same time.
    HX-Pro is more efficient and higher quality.

    HX-Pro nor Dolby HX are actually meant as a noise reduction systems even though it has noise reduction as a side effect, however, for marketing issues, HX-Pro was launched as such.

    Let's get other opinions on the subject.

    "dolph"

  2. #242
    niklasthedolphin Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    If you've got to do all that to make a good cassette recording, I'd rather have a Revox or similar, thanks very much, as batches of r-r tapes stayed far more consistent I found at the time.
    Funny you mention it.

    My Lyrec Professional Open Reel Deck has HX-Pro, patented by B&O, build in.

    And by the way, Revox exist under same conditions of the media as all the other tape decks.
    It's a matter of obtainable quality on the recordings you make, how many allignment options a certain deck blesses you with.

    "dolph"
    Last edited by niklasthedolphin; 24-06-2009 at 09:50.

  3. #243
    Join Date: May 2008

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    I'm David.

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    I can't go on and I can't go back, I don't feel so matter of fact,
    I tried and tried to make good sense, What's the good to try it all again?

  4. #244
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 9,966
    I'm Nick.

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    Dolph, if ever you get tired of this audio lark, PM me and I'll take your kit off your hands. I'll even collect it all in person!
    [SIZE="1"]Nick

    Follow AOS on Twitter: @AoS_Forum

  5. #245
    niklasthedolphin Guest

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    I hope this thread about cassette decks didn't die now.

    For newcommers to the cassette niche of musical enjoyment, I can recommend a very cheap solution of TOTL sound quality in the Tandberg TCD 440A.

    If found in good condition, these machines run for +20 years without service, remaining their very high buck for the money high sound quality.

    These machines usualy comes extremely cheap on ePay abd anywhere else.

    "dolph"

  6. #246
    Join Date: Apr 2009

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    I'm Ralph.

    Default I saw this and thought of you...


  7. #247
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    I'm gone.

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    Well, well. What a sensible forum this is!

    I hadn't even noticed this thread until Beechwoods gave a link to it in his new Nak thread.

    I've a problem (well, many problems, but this one is to do with music/audio!).
    I live in a lovely area right out in the backwoods in Deepest Gloucestershire, on the side of a hill. The wrong side of a hill. FM radio reception is totally crap. So I listen to BBC Radio 3 (I'm a classical fan) on DAB. It doesn't sound too bad, quite 'listenable' actually. But I also like to record from the radio - I've a cabinet full of minidiscs recorded from mostly live concerts broadcast on BBC Radio 3. About 600 probably. Luvvly stuff - and some real gems there, too.

    It used to be that I could record from DAB onto minidisc and it sounded damn fine, especially the smaller scale stuff. But then the good ol' Beeb reduced the bitrate on their Radio3 DAB broadcasts. Bad news! Compressed lo-bitrate DAB recorded onto compressed minidisc --->> urk - treble screech! Awful. Quite unlistenable.
    What to do? I needed a (hopefully fairly inexpensive) convenient & non-compressed recording medium .... after mooching around a bit, kind of baffled, it came to me CASSETTE! Worth a try anyway.

    So the other week I picked up a nearly new Akai GX-65 3 head cassette deck for £50 from a Wigwammer. Fed by my DAB radio it sounds bloody good! I have now recorded several live concerts off the radio, including some Proms, onto TDK SA tapes. Switching between 'source' and 'tape' as can be done with a 3-head machine, listening on my Stax headphones, there's is barely any difference at all, much to my surprise. What a fine machine that Akai is!

    Here displayed - the Akai and the DAB tuner, doing the biz!



    All I need now is the remote control handset for it - there's one on eBay.de for, err, just on £50 delivered. As much as the damn deck cost me! I'm steeling myself, but I haven't yet pressed the Buy It Now button ....
    Last edited by jandl100; 25-07-2009 at 08:19.
    .

  8. #248
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Hemel Hempstead

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    I'm Steve.

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    Well following the excellent purchase of a excellent condition DR-2 for £89, my following acquisition of a Sony TCK71 (3 heads Sendust and Ferrite, closed loop drive) for £26 also seems to be a good one.

    Heads and rollers need a clean but other wise it's in lovely 'one careful owner from new' condition.

    Now where am I going to put it?........
    Steve aka 'Twelvebears' (it's a long story)
    System: Technics 1210 Mk5, Jelco 750 arm, AT33EV via MF X-LP2 Phono Stage, Oyaide mat and record clamp. SB Touch via Marantz PM-11S1 amp and Wilson Benesch A.C.T. speakers. Mark Grant cables and PS Audio Power Plant Premier mains regenerator.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

  9. #249
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,474
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twelvebears View Post
    Well following the excellent purchase of a excellent condition DR-2 for £89, my following acquisition of a Sony TCK71 (3 heads Sendust and Ferrite, closed loop drive) for £26 also seems to be a good one.

    Heads and rollers need a clean but other wise it's in lovely 'one careful owner from new' condition.

    Now where am I going to put it?........
    I think we need to set up an E-Bayholics anonymous..... I'll start "My names Neil and I have a problem"...........

    Its as well you haven't started the R to R lark, once you get a machine then there are all the other bits you need................. Errr. NAB adapters, empty reels-metal reels-cine plastic reels, head demag, remote and it goes on and on and thats before you have bought a blank tape.


    Regards D S D L
    Regards Neil

  10. #250
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Hemel Hempstead

    Posts: 1,074
    I'm Steve.

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    Yeah I may have to make a deliberate effort to avoid going down that road....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    I think we need to set up an E-Bayholics anonymous..... I'll start "My names Neil and I have a problem"...........

    Its as well you haven't started the R to R lark, once you get a machine then there are all the other bits you need................. Errr. NAB adapters, empty reels-metal reels-cine plastic reels, head demag, remote and it goes on and on and thats before you have bought a blank tape.


    Regards D S D L
    Steve aka 'Twelvebears' (it's a long story)
    System: Technics 1210 Mk5, Jelco 750 arm, AT33EV via MF X-LP2 Phono Stage, Oyaide mat and record clamp. SB Touch via Marantz PM-11S1 amp and Wilson Benesch A.C.T. speakers. Mark Grant cables and PS Audio Power Plant Premier mains regenerator.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

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