Rip off British Hi-Fi Industry

[Colinx]

the dealer actually has the stuff available to allow you to use those strange things on the side of your head, just to check out how it works, with a range of other stuff, unlike the cottage industry builder. This guy wants you to pay his distribution, and returns costs so that you can hear it. A new entrant into this silly game had better hope retail holds up, can you imagine the carrier costs just to compare a few cd players, amps and speakers properly. Yes Richard, dealers are in it to make money, just the same as you, well unless you are so well endowed with spare time you build for free, in which case more fool you.
The Internet may well change the face of retail, just not yet, and we are not all only price aware, some still value a little extra service. Some retailers give it, some do not, the bad ones should and will go. You also seem to have forgot that to a number of Hi-Fi fans the badge is half the product, it gives willy brandishing rights, and they will pay for the rights.

[WikiBoy]

the dealer actually has the stuff available to allow you to use those strange things on the side of your head, just to check out how it works, with a range of other stuff, unlike the cottage industry builder. This guy wants you to pay his distribution, and returns costs so that you can hear it. A new entrant into this silly game had better hope retail holds up, can you imagine the carrier costs just to compare a few cd players, amps and speakers properly. Yes Richard, dealers are in it to make money, just the same as you, well unless you are so well endowed with spare time you build for free, in which case more fool you.
The Internet may well change the face of retail, just not yet, and we are not all only price aware, some still value a little extra service. Some retailers give it, some do not, the bad ones should and will go. You also seem to have forgot that to a number of Hi-Fi fans the badge is half the product, it gives willy brandishing rights, and they will pay for the rights.

Don't be fooled, he sells you what he wants to sell you. Hi-end needs warm up, hi-end requires suitable positioning and cabling, hi-end requires the foot to be tapped at the appropriate moments, ok the last one is just one of the dealer NLP cons, but you know what I mean.

Now think of an on-line community where forums are linked and there is a data base of product and who owns it and which area. Plus people who are willing to let you listen, maybe even for a consideration from the manufacturer (I don't like this but it could be a little grease as long as not sale dependent). Plus access to talk to a large database of people who own the product you are interested in. Think of regular organised local bake-offs where an evening can be spent discovering new music and new equipment you hadn't even considered. We are not there yet but we are on our way. The dealer is not dead yet, but the replacement is in transition, as the industry is in transistion. How long, well this recession will help it with a pretty big shove.

[Colinx]

Then why would the dealer I use get stuff in for me to hear that he does not normally stock. Sit you in in the dem room, supply a coffee and sod off and let you listen. Why does he not come in and tap his feet, sit looking glum until he changed power cables, then smile and tap his feet. Neither does he tell you how important set up and placement is, other than for speakers, and I assume you accept speaker placement matters.
You also seem to have forgotten that many forums have flavour of the month, that is listed for sale 3 months after. Every one has an agenda, either for personal gain, personal satisfaction or even pecking order on forums.
If you are genuinely pleased that we are going into, or are in, a recession that may see thousands suffer real financial hardship so that the few remaing hi-fi dealers suffer then you have less respect for humanity than I would have thought possible.

[WikiBoy]

Then why would the dealer I use get stuff in for me to hear that he does not normally stock. Sit you in in the dem room, supply a coffee and sod off and let you listen. Why does he not come in and tap his feet, sit looking glum until he changed power cables, then smile and tap his feet. Neither does he tell you how important set up and placement is, other than for speakers, and I assume you accept speaker placement matters.
You also seem to have forgotten that many forums have flavour of the month, that is listed for sale 3 months after. Every one has an agenda, either for personal gain, personal satisfaction or even pecking order on forums.
If you are genuinely pleased that we are going into, or are in, a recession that may see thousands suffer real financial hardship so that the few remaing hi-fi dealers suffer then you have less respect for humanity than I would have thought possible.

Now you are being silly, and getting upset at a rant.

Recession is just the natural other side of the coin, you cannot create a bubble unless it bursts at some time, law of nature.

If you have a good dealer be happy, I very much quote worst case, but there are a hell of a lot of worst cases. But does it make you happy to pay twice as much as the product is worth, just for time in his dem room and coffee. If you think so then you are with Marco in this.

Just because I rant do you really think I expect everyone to agree with me? If it makes you think and maybe challenge the status quo, then the rant has worked.

[Colinx]

Not in the least upset, just amazed me that rant mode on or off a recession should be a cause for celebration.
Do I think its worth paying double for something, as per my previous post, double what, and what does your ''half price offer'' cover. Certainly not my time waiting for delivery/collection of packages, use of credit or cash to cover the costs of turning my listening room into a shop, and from your own post your prices will have to rise when you hit the VAT threshold, thats a third of the price difference gone.

The status quo may need a coat of looking at- how about something radical, instead of paying more for the goods, or paying for transport/returns, we pay the dealer for his time, purchase made or not. how about something around the same hourly rate as Ford charge for a mechanic to service you car should do it.

[WikiBoy]

Not in the least upset, just amazed me that rant mode on or off a recession should be a cause for celebration.
Do I think its worth paying double for something, as per my previous post, double what, and what does your ''half price offer'' cover. Certainly not my time waiting for delivery/collection of packages, use of credit or cash to cover the costs of turning my listening room into a shop, and from your own post your prices will have to rise when you hit the VAT threshold, thats a third of the price difference gone.

The status quo may need a coat of looking at- how about something radical, instead of paying more for the goods, or paying for transport/returns, we pay the dealer for his time, purchase made or not. how about something around the same hourly rate as Ford charge for a mechanic to service you car should do it.

Why are you bringing this back to nva. What I say only coincidently has anything to do with nva.

Do you know how the industry prices, obviously not. Go into the archive it is explained there, I cannot be arsed to do your work for you if you want to know. It is not just nva it is every product. Look at what Sensi said, read his post if you don't believe me. A usual hi-end hi-fi retailers mark up is 100% or if looked at as profit margin then 50%. But it gets worse as Sensi said. If your product is new they want 150% and they want to pay for it when they sell it (if then). Come on this is just taking the piss and that is what they do.

It is up to you if you wish to be one of their apologists, but they really don't need it. They were essential for the market to function, now far less so, and that continuing process with eventually see their demise. Which if you have any sense will be a time for celebration.

I do not accept any of your arguments about turning you home into a dem room, that is what it is anyway in some ways. It makes no difference how you buy you will have that same process to go through. All your other arguments have been made and countered before, just view the archive, if you dissagree well too bad, you dissagree. I do not *expect* your agreement. But what I present is a possibility, a potential, a likelyhood of a dealer less world (in all things not just hi-fi) and as long as the manufacturers don't get greedy and just take the profit for themselves a considerably less outgoings world as well.

Our creation of the bubble in the last 10 years has been built largely off the Chinese expansion and production. It wont last, it couldn't last, it was a one off, nothing to do with Gordon Brown's expertise as a chancelor. The bubble is bursting, I celebrate the function of balance, of the interaction of yin and yang, the natural way of things. If you think it is a bad thing then you have no sense of reality. It is no worse than night having to follow day.

[Chris Frost]

how about something radical, instead of paying more for the goods, or paying for transport/returns, we pay the dealer for his time, purchase made or not. how about something around the same hourly rate as Ford charge for a mechanic to service you car should do it.

That's an interesting idea, but you find it falls on deaf ears as far as Richard is concerned.

He seems hell bent on his little rant against the industry. Maybe it's because he's still pee'd off that he couldn't get dealers to take his product, or that his attempts to sell direct by doing home dems didn't work out. Who knows, and more to the point really who cares? Now he's selling through Ebay he seems happy enough, though I think he's selling mostly low priced cables looking at the Ebay history for the last qtr. Ebay will work for him until something goes wrong. Then it will be public enemy number #1

[Marco]

If you think so then you are with Marco in this.

Don't bring me into this again, Richard. I actually agree with about 90% of what you're saying. If you would alter your argument to acknowledge that there are *some* good, worthwhile, dealers around instead of rubbishing every one of them completely unfairly and illogically, whilst exposing the shysters (which are many) then we would be in 100% agreement

But of course your stubborn head won't entertain that notion. However, it is your ranting thread so I guess we can't expect too much sense or logic

Now please keep me out of this one. I'll comment on your loudspeaker rant later.

Marco.

[WikiBoy]

That's an interesting idea, but you find it falls on deaf ears as far as Richard is concerned.

He seems hell bent on his little rant against the industry. Maybe it's because he's still pee'd off that he couldn't get dealers to take his product, or that his attempts to sell direct by doing home dems didn't work out. Who knows, and more to the point really who cares? Now he's selling through Ebay he seems happy enough, though I think he's selling mostly low priced cables looking at the Ebay history for the last qtr. Ebay will work for him until something goes wrong. Then it will be public enemy number #1

Still looking for angles the industry is going in the right direction, I am just pushing a little. Changes are on the way and they are not created by me. As I keep saying I am just the finger pointing at it not the moon itself, so don't confuse it.

None of what you think you find holds water though.

I have been pee'd off with dealers from the moment I had to use them. I have been looking for ways to replace them for 30 years. Now at last we have a viable one. So a previous necessary evil is no longer necessary - my point.

Ebay has its problems but it doesn't pee me off, it irritates me occassionaly. Nothing is perfect, not even me , so I will live with it.

What I sell, well your cursory check seems somewhat wrong to me, so I have just looked at my summary.

I hold records of four catagories - Electronics, Loudspeaker Cables, Interconnects, P&P. Leaving out P&P as irrelevent we get since 1st Jan :-

Electronics 40 items £13k
Loudspeaker Cable 45 items £3k
Interconnect 65 items £2k

total £18k - so seeing as I do not want to vat register I need to get that back down to £16k per qtr, or go on a long holiday. Probably the latter.

So come on this is small beer, it is the equivalent of Naims petty cash account. I am just a flea irritating the skin of the industry, or if you remember the old song "an ant pushing at a rubber tree plant".

Once again nothing you say holds any water or has any relevence.

[Chris Frost]

Hi Richard, as I've said previously (and you conveniently ignored) I support some of what you are saying. The bad dealers should be outed; but equally the good dealers should be praised. This is something you seem unwilling to consider. Hey ho, it's your rant.

Oh, and according to Ebay history for Jan 25th - Mar 25th, 2008, you had 120 transactions of which 96 were cables and 28 were electronics of which a sizable chunk were s/h items.

So for every 1 piece of new or used electronics sold you shipped out 3 cable sets. I'm not knocking it, but it does look to me like you're selling mostly cables and at a rate of 3:1 for that particular period. So what I said does "hold water" based on the information available.

Regards