Why is HFW so biased against vintage cartridges?

[Spectral Morn]

Yep, DS has real class - I love all her stuff, but some of the 'cheesy' Disco from the '70s was a 'larf, too.

'I lost my heart to a draught excluder' by Sarah B was another one

Marco.

The Kenny Everette television show as much to answer for...including Sarah B. She was part of Hot Gossip and Star Ship Trooper came out of the KE show....if my memory serves me right.



Regards D S D L

[Barry]

A couple of days ago,i was reading an article in HFW (not in the latest edition) about some vintage ortofon SPUs and as far as i recall,they loved them !?!?!?

It wasn't always that way. The author of the article was certainly an admirer of SPUs, but there have been some replys to readers' letters expressing a contrary opinion. (That is as polite a description as I can make!)

[Beobloke]

F.A.O Dave (DSJR, and also anyone else),

Could you do me a favour and ask what Adam (Beobloke's) problem is with the M3D here on pfm:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=64664 (see post #12).

I've noted your response on page 2 - you tell 'em, mate!!

HFW is by far my favourite hi-fi magazine, and I get on well with David Price, but I can't for the life of me understand what Adam (and Noel) has got against classic cartridges? They unfairly 'diss' the 103 at every opportunity and now it looks like the M3D is set for similar treatment...

What is their problem? They promote all sorts of vintage gear in the magazine, so why not also cartridges that can still compete with, and in many areas outperform, their modern counterparts?

What rips my knitting is that, on one hand, neither of them bats an eyelid (rightly so) extolling the virtues of Garrards or vintage valve gear, but when it comes to cartridges from a similar era, none in their minds can be any good. There’s no reason why well designed vintage cartridges can’t perform as well as some revered vintage equipment, given the right operating environment. Indeed, given such an environment, extensive listening experience tells me quite categorically that they do!!!

Perhaps someone (preferably Adam) could explain the double standards in evidence here?

Has Adam even heard an M3D? If not, he could try fitting one (with an N21D stylus) to the excellent Jelco SA-750D he reviewed, and so likes, including a heavy headhshell, put that on his Garrard, and then report his findings in the magazine – that way he’d be in a position to know what he’s talking about... Or would that affect his shares in Ortofon, Goldring and Audio Technica?

Anyway, if you could raise this issue with him on pfm on my behalf I'd be much appreciated. You could even link to the discussion here and draw his attention to my comments.

Marco.

Well, no-one tipped me the wink about this thread, Marco, (black marks, David!) but I stumbled on it by chance and it finally inspired me to register with AOS, so that must be something!

So then, what’s all this nonsense about me hating vintage cartridges? Put simply, I think you’re overstating the case a little – let me explain. Yes, I do indeed have a passion for all things audio, and a strong and nerdy obsession with old gear, especially of a vinyl-related nature. The thing is, though, I am an engineer and do realise that both from a design and construction point of view, and a sonic performance one, technology has moved on somewhat.

As you are a reader of Hi-Fi World, you will know that my system consists of both old and new items – I neither dismiss new kit as being rubbish because things were done better in the old days, but nor do I dismiss anything old as outdated and superceded until I have had a chance to try it out. Consider that my Ferrograph S1 loudspeakers were born in the 1970s when, let’s face it, there were a lot of average and quite a few downright rubbish loudspeaker designs on the market. I happen to think that the Ferrographs are one of the better ones and I thoroughly enjoy what they do , but I can assure you that if my lottery numbers ever come up, they won’t be staying in my system for much longer, as I have a list of new and shiny models I would like to replace them with!

As to these infernal cartridges, actually I know both of them, having owned more than one example of each. In fact a recently acquired DL103 is sat very near me right now, as I have bought a turntable with an arm that appears to have the effective mass of the Middlesbrough Transporter Bridge, so I suspect the two will work well together! I have spent time with the DL103 before as, when I first joined HFW nearly three years ago, its resurgence had just started, and I was parked in front of it by Noel for a good few days to give my opinion on it.

That opinion of mine is the same then as it is now, namely that the DL103 is a fine and pleasant sounding cartridge. The trouble is, so is an Audio Technica AT110E, but this is £70 cheaper and, frankly, from my main cartridge I don’t want to be coming up with words like “fine” or “pleasant”; I want “amazing”, “wow” and “brilliant” and that is what I get with the Audio Technica AT-OC9MLII that I use at the moment. I confess that I have not heard the DL103SA or any of the other ‘pimped’ versions but I cannot help but feel that they will all be limited by the 40 year old technology around which they are based – magnets have grown stronger, wire has become higher quality and thinner and stylus profiles have become more complex and better suited to their task since the DL103 first came into life. Equally, the Shure M3D is a fine performer but still not something I would ever become unduly excited about. One of mine sounded very fine in a Garrard 4HF and, no I have never fitted one into my Jelco and added loads of pennies to the headshell – maybe I’ll be shocked by its brilliance if I buy one and do this, who knows?!

Ultimately, we all have different tastes and I will always defend your right to enjoy the M3D and the DL103. Personally, however, they are not my cup of tea and I think it’s fair to say I am in the majority here, be that rightly or wrongly! Consequently, to recommend to magazine readers or other forum users a cartridge that I would never use myself seems a little self-defeating, don’t you think?

Adam.

P.S. –Where DO I get shares in Audio Technica and Ortofon anyway?!

P.P.S. – Oh, yes, and why do I keep having to log back into the forum every five minutes?!!

[Joe]

Ultimately, we all have different tastes and I will always defend your right to enjoy the M3D and the DL103. Personally, however, they are not my cup of tea

That's fightin' talk!

[StanleyB]

P.P.S. – Oh, yes, and why do I keep having to log back into the forum every five minutes?!!

You got to keep it quick and short. It's a sprint, not a marathon...

Stan

[Mike]

effective mass of the Middlesbrough Transporter Bridge,

Oi... don't tell him that!

I can just about see it from here, and the last thing I need is Marco coming round and trying to have the thing away so he can have it grafted onto his Techie!

[SPS]

Ultimately, we all have different tastes and I will always defend your right to enjoy the M3D and the DL103. Personally, however, they are not my cup of tea and I think it’s fair to say I am in the majority here, be that rightly or wrongly! Consequently, to recommend to magazine readers or other forum users a cartridge that I would never use myself seems a little self-defeating, don’t you think?

quite right adam, we all have the right to our opinion, forums and magazines both usually deal with opinions, as there appears no real way of measuring quality with anything but our ears... so does that makes 'quality' reproduction an opinion... I think so...
i would say the majority of your readers will not have heard an m3d set up anything like it needs to be, and with a reasonable performing stylus, so in turn would 'think' them not be their 'cup of tea' ..that would have been my veiw too a couple of years ago...

as you will have read, many commented on the quality of my system at the wigwam show,.. the m3d was playing ...
many other rooms had much more modern and expensive cartriges in their systems.. and my opinion was that they sounded like modern hi fi.. not quite like music was being reproduced reasonably acurately...

steve

[Steve Toy]

Adam, just tick the box when you log on to be automatically logged on each time you visit. This is not an option if you share computers.

Welcome to AOS btw.

[Dave Cawley]

Hi Adam

There is nothing wrong with your Hi Fi. Do not attempt to adjust the anti skating. We are controlling the VTA.

If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the treble. We will control the bass. We can roll the soundstage, make it flutter. We can change the imaging to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your Hi Fi. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Art Of Sound...............

Regards



Dave

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Adam

There is nothing wrong with your Hi Fi. Do not attempt to adjust the anti skating. We are controlling the VTA.

If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the treble. We will control the bass. We can roll the soundstage, make it flutter. We can change the imaging to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your Hi Fi. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Art Of Sound...............

Regards



Dave

Hi Dave

I love the original series of the Outer Limits. When I was a kid I used to love/look forward to staying up late and watching the O L. Brilliant stories, acting etc amazing. Bought the DVD box sets a while ago and its all as good as I remember.



Your adaptation of the opening monologue is pure genius..... I love your version. I can hear the music now by Dominic Frontier...and the voice over.....pure magic.



Promo guide




Regards D S D L