Cassette's Not Dead, Apparently!

[Marco]

Cassettes are a quaint, thankfully long dead domestic format that was a PITA at the time. I'm glad it's gone and that I have few precious recordings on it. The few I have are on metal type tapes and were still playable a few years ago...

Dave, I see that I'm going to have to unleash the CR-7 on you when you come up, too! Jeez, matey, what with that and the Mana thing, you're gonna leave with a whole new education in audio!





Marco.

[niklasthedolphin]

You missed my point entirely, Marco. It's not that I think that data is more important than listening or that I expect you to think that data is important, it's that language such as:







...has no place in a purely subjective discussion. "Accuracy," "resolution," and "superiority" are not subjective terms, they are terms with specific meanings that sound very much like they come from empirical evidence, not from someone's preferences or tastes. They imply data in support of your opinions, which is never forthcoming. If your intent, as you say, is to merely express your opinion, not to declare it to be fact, they are mis-used in this context.

You also have completely mis-read my relationship with data. I don't use it to form my point of view, that was done by decades of listening to, playing and recording music. I do, however, enjoy the fact that what I hear is supported by the evidence.

Tim

Everything members write on any HiFi forum regarding their experiences with reproduced sound is meant to be "IMHO".
Even with a debate including data and specs it will remain a subjective debate.

Objectivity is only what constructors can aim at, never acchieve.
Listeners can not even aim at it.
An experience is subjectively influenced by each person, this persons physics, mentality and mind.

"dolph"

[niklasthedolphin]

I've come across the Lyrec Frida before, but not heard one in person as it were. I would love to! They are incredibly well spec'd machines, but well out of my price range sadly.

Likewise the Tandberg - I would love to hear a very high-res sample of something off that deck. I know digitisation defeats the object but it's the only realistic way of getting a feel for the capabilities of a machine via the internet... if you were in the UK it'd be great to have a tape Bake-Off - all our machines in one room playing our best tapes through some decent front-end gear!

Unfortunately I'm not in UK.
If I were to live outside Denmark, my choise would be at the Med, not UK.
Sorry.

"dolph"

[Marco]

Everything members write on any HiFi forum regarding their experiences with reproduced sound is meant to be "IMHO".
Even with a debate including data and specs it will remain a subjective debate.

Objectivity is only what constructors can aim at, never acchieve.
Listeners can not even aim at it.
An experience is subjectively influenced by each person, this persons physics, mentality and mind.

Great post, Dolph.

Marco.

[tfarney]

Accurate
One entry found.

Main Entry:
ac·cu·rate Listen to the pronunciation of accurate
Pronunciation:
\ˈa-kyə-rət, ˈa-k(ə-)rət\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin accuratus, from past participle of accurare to take care of, from ad- + cura care
Date:
1596

1 : free from error especially as the result of care <an accurate diagnosis> 2 : conforming exactly to truth or to a standard : exact <providing accurate color> 3 : able to give an accurate result <an accurate gauge>
synonyms see correct

2correct
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, corrected, from Latin correctus, from past participle of corrigere
Date:
1668

1 : conforming to an approved or conventional standard <correct behavior> 2 : conforming to or agreeing with fact, logic, or known truth <a correct response> 3 : conforming to a set figure <enclosed the correct return postage> 4 : conforming to the strict requirements of a specific ideology or set of beliefs or values <environmentally correct> <spiritually correct>

Marco, I think our disagreement, at the moment anyway, may have more to do with English usage than audio. Accurate doesn't work for you, as you reject "known standards" and refuse to accept any "guage" other than your own impressions (which is fine). It seems that correct must be the correct term for what you hear. Well, except for the "approved" or "conventional standard" part, and the stuff about agreeing with "fact, logic or known truth." That sure doesn't work here. But #4 is a near-winner -- "conforming to the strict requirements of a specific ideology or set of beliefs or values" -- if not a clear winner. Just add "of my own making" to the end and you've got it!

Or you could just say you like it. Nothing wrong with that. I would prefer the quiet, clarity and punch of a good digital recording through a well-designed active system over vinyl and valves, regardless of what the measurements might say.

And, by the way, what Dave said.

Tim

[DSJR]

Dave, I see that I'm going to have to unleash the CR-7 on you when you come up, too! Jeez, matey, what with that and the Mana thing, you're gonna leave with a whole new education in audio!





Marco.

Marco, I OWNED a CR7 for a couple of years...

There's little you can tell me about what it can and can't do.

I also owned a Dragon (great toy), an LX5, a 700 original, a 700ZXE and a 682XZ and BX2. I also sold all the others from 1974 to 1995 or whenever they stopped importing them in the UK.

I'm not in the position to do this any more, but it's not just me who needs a severe re-education in audio... You need to know what the absolute references are and if you did but know it, there have been several knowledgeable posters here and elsewhere who know what they're on about that have been lampooned on the internet, purely because they can't always demonstrate what they're trying to say and their wider view doesn't "fit" with the narrower and purely subjective views of those who know what they like and like what they know.....

I'm off for a cuppa

[Marco]

Marco, I think our disagreement, at the moment anyway, may have more to do with English usage than audio. Accurate doesn't work for you, as you reject "known standards" and refuse to accept any "guage" other than your own impressions (which is fine). It seems that correct must be the correct term for what you hear. Well, except for the "approved" or "conventional standard" part, and the stuff about agreeing with "fact, logic or known truth." That sure doesn't work here. But #4 is a near-winner -- "conforming to the strict requirements of a specific ideology or set of beliefs or values" -- if not a clear winner. Just add "of my own making" to the end and you've got it! Or you could just say you like it.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for that, but if it's all the same with you I'll stick to using the language I choose to describe what I hear - it seems to works fine for everyone else but you

As Dolph says, anything one writes on forums, unless specifically stated otherwise, should be read in terms of "IMHO".

"Known standards" for me are flawed, as they don't tell the whole story, for the valid reasons I've outlined.

Marco.

[tfarney]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for that, but if it's all the same with you I'll stick to the language I choose to use to describe what I hear - it seems to work fine for everyone else but you

As Dolph says, anything one writes on forums, unless specifically stated otherwise, should be read in terms of "IMHO".

Marco.

Just trying to help.

ON EDIT: What Dave said again.

Tim

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

Marco, I OWNED a CR7 for a couple of years...

There's little you can tell me about what it can and can't do.

I know you did, Dave, but you also said that about the M3D - and look what happened!

The fact is what you heard with your CR-7 all those years ago is not necessarily what you'll hear with one in my system now - there are too many variables therefore, on that basis, you *may* or may not have to re-evaluate your opinion.

You need to know what the absolute references are and if you did but know it, there have been several knowledgeable posters here and elsewhere who know what they're on about that have been lampooned on the internet, purely because they can't always demonstrate what they're trying to say and their wider view doesn't "fit" with the narrower and purely subjective views of those who know what they like and like what they know.....

The only "absolute references" that matter to me are what I hear in my own system with my own ears - that (and live music) is my benchmark, and thus what I form my opinions on. I will also listen to stuff in systems belonging to friends, which I know almost as intimately as my own, and form opinons based on what I hear there.

Why should I pay any attention to a stranger or what some so-called 'expert' on the subject thinks? They could have cloth ears for all I know!!

With hi-fi I trust my own ears, those of friends whom I know analyse the reproduction of music as I do, or those of people I respect - no other "references" matter to me. However, no-one knows everything, so I'm always willing to learn and add to my experience outside of that arena.

This process for me is entirely normal. What else should I be doing?

I'm off for a cuppa

Enjoy. I'm sipping a rather nice glass of chilled rosé

Marco.

[Marco]

Just trying to help.

Cheers, but it's really unnecessary old chap

I would prefer the quiet, clarity and punch of a good digital recording through a well-designed active system over vinyl and valves, regardless of what the measurements might say.

LOL. Now I *know* you've never heard a decent vinyl and valves system!

What you've described above is exactly how vinyl and valves sound in my system! There is no lack of clarity and punch whatsoever, and there are a whole lot of other things too going on which are just as important, or more important, than that.

Perhaps the vinyl and valves systems you've heard in the past were lacking in those areas, I don't know, but that's far from the norm when vinyl and valves are done right.

Also, there's a lot more to reproducing music accurately than "clarity and punch"!! If you want clarity and punch though, come and listen to my modified SL-1210 playing 12" dance singles through 30W of pure Class A valve amplification into 95db 15" driver Tannoys in huge cabinets - I'll give you "clarity and punch" you'll never forget, boy!

Out of interest, Tim, please name the vinyl and valves systems you've heard. I'd like to know what your benchmark is in that area.

Cheers.

Marco.