Alternative platters ?

[Marco]

Hi Biff,

I think Martin meant 'better' (to me), but omitted the latter. With the 'to me' bit in place, his statement is entirely accurate. Furthermore, in that context, the same also applies with him

Marco.

[FunkArt]

As an aside, out of curiosity, (Arthur), how will the sub and main platter be joined on the Mk. 2 version? A relatively large surface area and suitable choice of interface material provides the resistive force for friction to do its job...brakes after all have been known to be effective in stopping up to 2 tons of cars quite efficiently. By comparison the inertia of a platter rotating at a measly .5 rps doesn't take an awful lot of holding.

Will the torque of the 1200 motor effect that join over time (start up / quick electronic braking especially with a 78 rpm mod)? Answered from above, relative to frictional forces.

Will the two platters "slip" if one tries to clean a record on the table with that setup? Not in any of the tests we've conducted.

Perhaps, dumb questions; but, these are the things I think about. (I should get out more.) There are things that I, personally, take for granted because the Techy is such a tank. I've never owned a sub/main platter TT and reading about some TD 124s with warped platters: My observation there is that you quote specifically warping, as opposed to a default condition for any and all such designs.
if we look at Aristons, LP12 TD 150/160/125 et al. So, not something that comes to most people's mind over the past decades. As for "some Regas that "crest and trough"", again the same argument applies. Any component in production can be individually found to "fail" but as a general rule, all these designs have worked over time and any failures, ought to be regarded no differently than a transistor blowing up.
Finally on this point, and by contrast, and yes, I too should get out more, but in my long tenure of turntable designer, I have noted many, MANY warped single piece platters and never really gave ti much thought. Simply, production effects that are sorted by a good back-up department and then never thought about again.

I'm assuming the bottom of the main platter and top of the hub would have to be near perfectly flat and level. Naturally.

Just asking... ...I generally do a stupid amount of research before plunking down my coins. And, why shouldn't you?

As I posted earlier, what are your thoughts on replacing the lettering that doesn't seem to be too popular with polishing the sides (less noticeable glue join) at the same cost?
Whilst removal of the lettering is now a given, we are awaiting figurers from supplier, but back of a fag pack, I have been advised that the cost of polishing does not equate to removal of the lettering...
For the record: Our products are costed on a simple, "industry" formula of manufacturing cost to final price ratio, weighted as necessary by factors which include manufacturing rejects - you should see our reject pile of mats!! and so on. So, if our costs of polishing turn out to be less then the "estimated price quoted will be amended accordingly.

Arthur

[Oldpinkman]

That's a long one biff, which it wouldn't surprise me if arthur missed. I'll ask him to take a look. Your point about tastes, preferences and priorities is a good one - and evident among all of aos discussion. I think I may have reacted in a slightly prickly way to paul stewart because his first post about the products I use was addressed personally to me by name, and rather than express an opinion or different taste, told me in a manner I found patronising that other product WAS better (as an absolute).

Whilst our tastes in what we hear are the only sensible basis for choosing our hifi, measurements can help objectively confirm what we hear. I hope to get the plots of the headphone measurements we took last weekend soon, and publish them next to the auditioning comments i have already posted. They were quite interesting. (Somebody tell stephen fry!)

There are also some interesting thoughts about those tonearm plots and how mechanical measurements in what are part of a transducer affect what we hear, but this thread probably isn't the place to discuss them

[sq225917]

I'm just wondering it the various designers of add on/replacement mats and platters for the 1210 haves done any measurement to see what effect the altered mass has on the compensation circuit?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I wonder where this idea originated from? PS I've sent you some links.

[YNWaN]

I'm just wondering it the various designers of add on/replacement mats and platters for the 1210 haves done any measurement to see what effect the altered mass has on the compensation circuit?

Yes, also my thoughts. The compensation circuit of the 1200/1210 does not implement fuzzy logic and does not factor in the rotating inertia of the platter; it assumes zero inertia and instant response, hence the very light standard platter with minimal peripheral mass.
________________

I had a look at Mike's website last night and I must say I was left a bit confused. He only lists one platter and that is an aluminium one with a copper mat bonded to it. However, I believe he also does a Delrin one and there is also a slide show picture on his site of one with metal inserts.
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My own platter is in two parts and has an inner and outer element. The outer platter rests on a precision machined 1mm wide raised ring and absolutely zero slip exists, even when a record is cleaned. The whole idea of platter, or record, slip is a red herring.

[MartinT]

For the sake of clarity: please accept that ALL statements by me imply the "to me" as a given. I don't make absolute statements unless I specifically mean to. Almost all contributions by members are opinion, but we don't need to keep stating the 'IMO' bit.

[MCRU]

Yes, also my thoughts. The compensation circuit of the 1200/1210 does not implement fuzzy logic and does not factor in the rotating inertia of the platter; it assumes zero inertia and instant response, hence the very light standard platter with minimal peripheral mass.
________________

I had a look at Mike's website last night and I must say I was left a bit confused. He only lists one platter and that is an aluminium one with a copper mat bonded to it. However, I believe he also does a Delrin one and there is also a slide show picture on his site of one with metal inserts.
------------------

My own platter is in two parts and has an inner and outer element. The outer platter rests on a precision machined 1mm wide raised ring and absolutely zero slip exists, even when a record is cleaned. The whole idea of platter, or record, slip is a red herring.

why be confused when you have no intention of buying a platter anyway?

all you have done is potentially confuse would be purchasers of said platter!

to avoid said confusion here is the ETP platter

[synsei]

Mike's website only needs updating and considering he is a one man band I am sure he can be forgiven for prioritizing production

[Marco]

Yes, also my thoughts. The compensation circuit of the 1200/1210 does not implement fuzzy logic and does not factor in the rotating inertia of the platter; it assumes zero inertia and instant response, hence the very light standard platter with minimal peripheral mass.

That's one of the main reasons why, after conducting the comparison, I moved from using the high-mass MN platter (as good as it was in some ways) to the much lower mass (and I believe similar in weight to the stock item) Funk Firm [MK I] platter, particularly after hearing the (IMO detrimental) sonic effect a high-mass platter has on the efficacy of the internal circuitry of the T/T, as intended originally by Matsushita Electric/Panasonic.

With the Funk (MK I) platter in place, music just seemed to sound 'right' (much more so than with the stock platter, which is a victim of its sub-optimal resonance characteristics and mechanical integrity), especially in terms of crucial aspects relating to timing accuracy, in a way that escaped the high-mass aluminium platter, which in comparison imparted a 'one-note' effect in the bass and an overall heavier and rather 'ponderous' sound, which to my ears was unnatural.

In that respect, I would also expect Mike's ETP platter to similarly excel, as I believe the design of the Technics suits the use of a lighter platter, although one can argue over the optimum material used for its construction. Consequently, with the new MKII Funk platter reputed as being heavier than the MK I, it is also one of the reservations I have about it, although as ever, the proof of the pudding will be in the listening!

Marco.