Arkless Phono stage

[Marco]

You boys are both striving for different things. Jez wants measured neutrality and Marco wants the sound he wants to hear. There's no real way to compare those two ideals using the tools that each of you select to arrive at that goal.

How so, Simon? If my SUT (in conjunction with the MM phono stage inside my Croft preamp) has been measured as giving "a wide and flat response", to quote Jez, and indeed has been confirmed as having such by Anthony TD, after him conducting the necessary measurements, then how does that not represent what you refer to as "measured neutrality"?

Furthermore, I can assure you that the sound I want to hear is nothing other than that which left the studio and exists on the record, which in my experience, is diluted somewhat by all the active MC stages I've heard to date - especially the SS ones!

Marco.

[Marco]

Just a suggestion chaps. If Marco has the MM/MC switchable demo version he can try MM + SUT v Active MC input. Only way to settle the argument and then this may be down to personal preference. The two approaches (solid state v valve/SUT) are likely to sound different if not one better than the other...

Indeed, Paul. I look forward to testing exactly that and reporting my findings here

Marco.

[Arkless Electronics]

How so, Simon? If my SUT (in conjunction with the MM phono stage inside my Croft preamp) has been measured as giving "a wide and flat response", to quote Jez, and indeed has been confirmed as having such by Anthony TD, after him conducting the necessary measurements, then how does that not represent what you refer to as "measured neutrality"?

Furthermore, I can assure you that the sound I want to hear is nothing other than that which left the studio and exists on the record, which in my experience, is diluted somewhat by all the active MC stages I've heard to date - especially the SS ones!

Marco.

There's not exactly a lot of non solid state active ones about! I have a valve head amp here which I built years ago and although it sounds great it is just not possible to get the noise down to the levels that can easily be achieved with SS. I found it's noise level to be acceptable personally though as it was always below record noise.... the biggest issue was that valves which are quiet enough for any other application can still be too noisy for use in a MC head amp so very careful selection has to be done..... worse still, if a valve "goes noisy" in a way that is so slight that you wouldn't notice it if that valve was used elsewhere, you will certainly notice it in this application!!

You can of course try the unit with either MM and SUT or MC but I suspect you will prefer it with your SUT..... whereas I would probably prefer it with the active MC setting! Your choice of speakers for example, whilst popular and a classic, wouldn't suit me as low colouration is very important to me. It's likely that the qualities in a hifi system that are most important to you may be a bit different to the ones where I place greatest emphasis

[Marco]

There's not exactly a lot of non solid state active ones about!

I think you're misunderstanding me... I'm talking about valve MM stages, in conjunction with an MC SUT, versus standalone MC phono stages. The former, IME to date, outperform the latter, in terms of the musical accuracy you (and I both) crave!

I have a valve head amp here which I built years ago and although it sounds great it is just not possible to get the noise down to the levels that can easily be achieved with SS. I found it's noise level to be acceptable personally though as it was always below record noise.... the biggest issue was that valves which are quiet enough for any other application can still be too noisy for use in a MC head amp so very careful selection has to be done..... worse still, if a valve "goes noisy" in a way that is so slight that you wouldn't notice it if that valve was used elsewhere, you will certainly notice it in this application!!

Indeed. When it comes to head amps, I prefer SS ones. I have a modified (battery powered) Lentek unit, which whilst a little hissy in between tracks with the volume turned up, sounds utterly devine, especially in conjunction with a Denon DL-103 and a quality valve MM phono stage!

You can of course try the unit with either MM and SUT or MC but I suspect you will prefer it with your SUT..... whereas I would probably prefer it with the active MC setting! Your choice of speakers for example, whilst popular and a classic, wouldn't suit me as low colouration is very important to me. It's likely that the qualities in a hifi system that are most important to you may be a bit different to the ones where I place greatest emphasis

With respect, Jez, you can think that, but you can't know it, as you've never heard my system, or I believe any of its constituent components in isolation. The reality is that ALL speakers are rather coloured sounding devices - therefore one simply chooses one's favourite 'flavour' of coloration!

I can assure you, however, that if you heard my speakers (which don't forget are choc-full of very expensive modern crossover components), on the end of my system, the last thing you'd likely say would be 'oh, would you listen to that coloration?'

Why not pop down sometime for a listen and bring your phono stage with you? You're not a million miles away!

Marco.

[Arkless Electronics]

I think you're misunderstanding me... I'm talking about valve MM stages, in conjunction with an MC SUT, versus standalone MC phono stages. The former, IME to date, outperform the latter, in terms of the musical accuracy you (and I both) crave!



Indeed. When it comes to head amps, I prefer SS ones. I have a modified (battery powered) Lentek unit, which whilst a little hissy in between tracks with the volume turned up, sounds utterly devine, especially in conjunction with a Denon DL-103 and a quality valve MM phono stage!



With respect, Jez, you can think that, but you can't know it, as you've never heard my system, or I believe any of its constituent components in isolation. The reality is that ALL speakers are rather coloured sounding devices - therefore one simply chooses one's favourite 'flavour' of coloration!

I can assure you, however, that if you heard my speakers (which don't forget are choc-full of very expensive modern crossover components), on the end of my system, the last thing you'd likely say would be 'oh, would you listen to that coloration?'

Why not pop down sometime for a listen and bring your phono stage with you? You're not a million miles away!

Marco.

Another example right there Marco.... I don't like the Denon DL103! Or any other cartridge with a spherical stylus....

In the Arkless 640P (including the turbo version) the signal passes through exactly the same components and signal path whether switched to MM or MC. Only the value of one (gain setting) resistor changes. It could then be speculated that if you prefer it set to MM and with an SUT then the SUT must be adding some sort of euphonic colouration!

Although not a million miles away 240 is rather a hike... especially by motorbike with winter approaching! If I'm ever in the area though I'd certainly love to come and hear your system!

[Marco]

Another example right there Marco.... I don't like the Denon DL103! Or any other cartridge with a spherical stylus....

Lol - luckily then I don't use it as my everyday cartridge! I use an Ortofon SPU Royal GM, which is fitted with one of the most accurate styli known to man, reputed as being the closest thing to emulate the shape of the cutting needle on a record lathe. I give you Ortofon's own version of a Fritz Geiger(s) tip, known as the 'Replicant Stylus 100'.....

http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?opt...=77&Itemid=120

Quote from the Ortofon website, in reference to the Replicant stylus:

Another precondition for linear reproduction with a wide frequency range and optimal tracking performance is a diamond, the shape of which is as close as possible to the original cutting needle. To achieve this, the Ortofon SPU Royal GM MKII uses the unique Ortofon Replicant Stylus 100.

This diamond, which is already known from products such as the MC 3000 Mk II and MC 5000, is incredibly small and light, but has an extraordinarily large vertical contact surface despite its minimal radius of rounding. Correctly fitted at a vertical angle of 23 degrees, an Ortofon Replicant Stylus 100 will read the musical information in the grooves of a record with a greater degree of accuracy than any other kind of needle.

Sounds superb!

"In the Arkless 640P (including the turbo version) the signal passes through exactly the same components and signal path whether switched to MM or MC. Only the value of one (gain setting) resistor changes. It could then be speculated that if you prefer it set to MM and with an SUT then the SUT must be adding some sort of euphonic colouration!"

Lol... Well, let's wait and see then, shall we?

"Although not a million miles away 240 is rather a hike... especially by motorbike with winter approaching! If I'm ever in the area though I'd certainly love to come and hear your system!"

Indeed - well the offer is there, if you're ever bored one day and fancy something fun and different to do!!

Beer and munchies will be on me

Marco.

[Floyddroid]

I had a listen to the Arkless mod and it was pretty good.

[twotone]

I had a listen to the Arkless mod and it was pretty good.

I received my Arkless phono stage yesterday and have been listening to almost non-stop since, it's a wonderful sounding amp with a beautiful midrange, fantastic bass and with real clarity and it also has great timing & rythm.

I certainly couldn't have afforded such a quality amp if the Arkless had a name like Whest or Slee or whatever on it.

The sound from this amp along with my TT and cart is the best that I've ever hear vinyl on my system.

I actually feel that I can forget the phono stage quest now and just concentrate on getting the deck the way I want it which means doing something about the stock arm, either replace it or re-wire it and I would like to try a real good MM cart now too, at the moment I've an SAE 1000LT HOMC cart which sounds fab but I've never really heard a good MM cart on my vinyl set up before.

I have tried decent MM carts before but my vinyl set up wasn't capable of letting the cart do what it was capable of then but that's now changed.

I can hardly stop smilling listening to the vinyl now

[Tarzan]

I think you're misunderstanding me... I'm talking about valve MM stages, in conjunction with an MC SUT, versus standalone MC phono stages. The former, IME to date, outperform the latter, in terms of the musical accuracy you (and I both) crave!



Indeed. When it comes to head amps, I prefer SS ones. I have a modified (battery powered) Lentek unit, which whilst a little hissy in between tracks with the volume turned up, sounds utterly devine, especially in conjunction with a Denon DL-103 and a quality valve MM phono stage!



With respect, Jez, you can think that, but you can't know it, as you've never heard my system, or I believe any of its constituent components in isolation. The reality is that ALL speakers are rather coloured sounding devices - therefore one simply chooses one's favourite 'flavour' of coloration!

I can assure you, however, that if you heard my speakers (which don't forget are choc-full of very expensive modern crossover components), on the end of my system, the last thing you'd likely say would be 'oh, would you listen to that coloration?'

Why not pop down sometime for a listen and bring your phono stage with you? You're not a million miles away!

Marco.

x2 l am listening to a 103/ RFC SUT1/ Croft Micro Basic and it sounds superb, myself and Audio Al will be having a shootout when he gets his Arkless Turbo back- watch this space..........

[Marco]

Nice one, Andy. I'll look forward to that... Full write-up please (with pics, if possible) when it happens!

Marco.