Rip off British Hi-Fi Industry

[Colinx]

Colin you are obviously an intelligent man and I completely agree with you. BUT it is early days in the revolution. Even though I have my disputes 'wiv der management' at wigwam, I still think it represents the future far more than here or PF and DEFINITELY not ZG. Reason - it has developed community. This is the future of the web, and has been my point in numerous past posts. It is not just selling on the web, that is a very small part of the equation. All hobby industry will or should develop this community, what is in the way of it - well the marketing men and retailers who pollute the web with their bullshit. There are many who don't and try to become part of community instead of trying to feed of it, and if they want to survive that is what they should do - have to do - to get goodwill.

The advice given and especially the bakeoffs at wigwam for me are the largest and strongest current finger pointing at the future. Head-fi in the US has similar. The customers *own* home will become the future retail point, but instead of being financially and marketing based, it will be information and community based. Groups of local enthusiasts who *want* to have like friends and people to help and help them. That is the future and if I have my way that is the way this forum will go as it has enormous potential as being the only one that hasn't had the management succumb to trough slurping.

I can see, and understand what you want (hope) to achieve, and to be honest, anything that stops the march of the I thing, and the dreaded MP3 into the home of music fans needs to applauded and supported. The bake off system can be used and equally well abused by retailers, makers, and general muppets like me, and too an extent I am wary of them for that reason, but they could very well be a way forward.
I think you also have to be equally aware of the latest and greatest phenomenon, that sweeps most of the boards, plus the follow my leader syndrome.
Have you considered having regional ''fan boy's'' that can borrow your kit to demo to other people in their homes (I'm not proposing to be one) as an adjunct to your e-bay site. It may be that it is a cost effective way to air your products in a friendly, non sales environment, among a group of similar minded music fans.

As for the wam, I am still a regular user of the place and to be honest a bit surprised at your trough comments. I know that they charge for trade users, but seeing as a number of us also contribute towards its cost just to use it, seemed a fair idea to me. Nowt for Nowt as we say, even on the net.

[WikiBoy]

I can see, and understand what you want (hope) to achieve, and to be honest, anything that stops the march of the I thing, and the dreaded MP3 into the home of music fans needs to applauded and supported. The bake off system can be used and equally well abused by retailers, makers, and general muppets like me, and too an extent I am wary of them for that reason, but they could very well be a way forward.
I think you also have to be equally aware of the latest and greatest phenomenon, that sweeps most of the boards, plus the follow my leader syndrome.
Have you considered having regional ''fan boy's'' that can borrow your kit to demo to other people in their homes (I'm not proposing to be one) as an adjunct to your e-bay site. It may be that it is a cost effective way to air your products in a friendly, non sales environment, among a group of similar minded music fans.

As for the wam, I am still a regular user of the place and to be honest a bit surprised at your trough comments. I know that they charge for trade users, but seeing as a number of us also contribute towards its cost just to use it, seemed a fair idea to me. Nowt for Nowt as we say, even on the net.

Good again Colin and exactly the discussion I wanted to see. Yes of course the guy at wigwam can ask for donations, it is either that or asking for membership fee (how many would still be members). The donation thing is for me a part of community, like bringing wine or beer to a bakeoff. The trough is sending an invoice to anyone he perceives as industry and demanding a £50 fee under the threat that if you don't pay you get banned and your products cannot be talked about, which happened to NVA - Beresford and others. There are many here who can confirm this who have received threatening PMs that they will be booted if they contyinue to discuss these products. That is the trough being used Colin. If I had been left to making a donation I would have done so.

Your other points, yes of course the bakeoff system is open to corruption, and yes of course enthusiasts for your product become amatuer marketers, it is human nature, nothing is perfect. BUT it is up to the majority to pull in the over enthusiastic. I even discussed this aspect of it at my short stay at wigwam and PF about 18 months ago, and was flamed like you wouldn't believe by the £50 retailers and the amateur marketers. It could also even be corrupted to be like a Ann Summers or tupperware party. Is that what you want, I don't think so. It will find its own way as people will find ways to make it work if the marketers and sellers stay out of it. And yes sheep sydrome is again another problem at forums and I suppose potentially at bakeoffs. We have always had sheep which is why we always have wolves - natural selection.

Also if you wanted a half way house then users of product could become local reps on a commission or discount basis, and if this was a more professional industry like some then that could be the new retailing. But I feel this industry is different, people buy what they want if they are just left to hear it. Companies will succeed according to two factors 1 having product in the field to listen to 2 being better product. Natural selection then comes in and manufacturers cannot sit back and just rape their sheep and bullshit the market the way they are still doing even now.

I have put it in open domain, and will do again - If anyone organises a bakeoff through one of the established forums and wants me to loan product to compare with others I will willingly do it. I will not turn up to brow beat, lecture or offer a free lunch - just get on with it and tell me what you think.

This is good, anymore from anyone else?

[Marco]

I still think it represents the future far more than here or PF and DEFINITELY not ZG.

Really? Give us a bloody chance. We've only been going 9 weeks!!

Marco.

[WikiBoy]

Really? Give us a bloody chance. We've only been going 9 weeks!!

Marco.

You have no problem Marco, you are allowing it to be discussed. People don't like chains, more and more will come here, especially when you start to attract the sheep 'cos they just always follow each other

[jimdgoulding]

Selling on the web is mentioned above as the future. Yep, it's a whole new world. How many record shops are still around? I lived in San Francisco for a lot of years. That's a city that protects it's culture. Most of our older cities that were thought to ever have had a culture do. Elitism at it's finest. I know a cat in Idaho (parts of Idaho have pretty wealthy residents). He owns an audio salon. Sells the products that he admires. He also is a speaker builder. Markets online in places the this, at hifi shows and word of mouth. He sells his speakers direct. His speakers are handsomely finished and expensive. But you know what is cool? He also sells his designs in DIY form so the rest of us not in the neck of the woods of his local clientele can partake. You won't find a mass marketed item in his store except for maybe an accessory. I doubt that he will ever take his business public. I so respect his approach.

But when it comes to buying things like CD's or TV's, I buy like everybody else. I think the days of hi-fi salons are numbered except in exclusive markets. Such is life. But those of us who like finding our own way will always have avenues. Cause we're both creative and don't care to compromise. I don't see a problem myself. But, of course, we will have more choices if we have money. But we will never be tasteless.

Don't know if this is on point, just felt like sayin.

[WikiBoy]

Selling on the web is mentioned above as the future. Yep, it's a whole new world. How many record shops are still around? I lived in San Francisco for a lot of years. That's a city that protects it's culture. Most of our older cities that were thought to ever have had a culture do. Elitism at it's finest. I know a cat in Idaho (parts of Idaho have pretty wealthy residents). He owns an audio salon. Sells the products that he admires. He also is a speaker builder. Markets online in places the this, at hifi shows and word of mouth. He sells his speakers direct. His speakers are handsomely finished and expensive. But you know what is cool? He also sells his designs in DIY form so the rest of us not in the neck of the woods of his local clientele can partake. You won't find a mass marketed item in his store except for maybe an accessory. I doubt that he will ever take his business public. I so respect his approach.

But when it comes to buying things like CD's or TV's, I buy like everybody else. I think the days of hi-fi salons are numbered except in exclusive markets. Such is life. But those of us who like finding our own way will always have avenues. Cause we're both creative and don't care to compromise. I don't see a problem myself. But, of course, we will have more choices if we have money. But we will never be tasteless.

Don't know if this is on point, just felt like sayin.

And well said

[WikiBoy]

BUMP

C'mon more votes

[Chris Frost]

I keep being told by various companies that selling on the web is the way forward. You can buy it, and if you don't like it send it back, you pay only for the transport. In theory fine, other than lets say, I want to compare 3 amps at say £500.00. So I either have to pay for all 3 and get them to my home at the same time, or have one follow the other. I would prefer all at the same time, so I need to have 3x the cost price available at the time of purchase. I have to pay 3 x delivery fee's, plus 3 x return fee's, say £25 a box each way, so that £150 in transports cost to buy a £500 amp. Most couriers deliver between 8 and 5.30, so some one has to be at home to receive them. Will they all deliver on same day, or a weekend, will they hell, so that's either one or two days holiday gone to take delivery, another to send them back. How much is that- anywhere between £80 and £320 in lost wages on a low wage- lets half it £200, so £200 plus transport of £150, thats cost the customer £350 to buy a £500 pound amp, those margins don't look so silly do they? If we assume that the man selling the amp at £500 is not registered for VAT, but needs to be with the direct scheme, thats £80 ish- these £500 pound amps are soon going to be £1000 when all the costs are covered. I would rather use a day off to visit a retailer, compare how stuff looks and sounds and make my choice rather than have a box sent to me. All the internet sales route does is move the logistics problems- and point them straight at the paying customer.

Exactly.

Threads like this make me angry. They'd serve some purpose if the people of Britain valued service at the point of sale, but by and large we don't. We don't like to see charges for service, so the cost of service gets wrapped up into the price of the goods.

There's room in the market for all different types of approach - direct sales works for some companies, distribution & retail for others. If you are a consumer and you you want to buy from direct sellers then great, go ahead. But don't bitch and moan because something you've set your heart on is only available from a store because the manufacturer or distributor deems that as an important part of how they do business. And please, if you can't afford something then that's no excuse for complaining about "rip-offs".

The pursuit of "cheaper everything" isn't necessarily the answer. I think it's great that some niche brands are available direct. It adds diversity to the market, but I don't want to buy all my Hi-Fi like that!

It would be better if we had a thread focusing the dealers who are screwing up the Hi-Fi industry. I'm pretty lucky. I found a dealer who knows what they're doing and who isn't afraid to express a strong opinion. If your only experience of dealers is the type who will say anything to get your cash then I can sympathise how folk would feel ripped off. So why not do something about that?!

If the service is poor and the dealer is only interested in your cash then get active. Tell them to change or they'll lose your custom. If things don't change then walk. It's that simple. You're next action is then to out the crap dealers. This should be done in a responsible way - no rants or childish bitching - this forum doesn't need a load of flak.

[WikiBoy]

Exactly.

Threads like this make me angry. They'd serve some purpose if the people of Britain valued service at the point of sale, but by and large we don't. We don't like to see charges for service, so the cost of service gets wrapped up into the price of the goods.

There's room in the market for all different types of approach - direct sales works for some companies, distribution & retail for others. If you are a consumer and you you want to buy from direct sellers then great, go ahead. But don't bitch and moan because something you've set your heart on is only available from a store because the manufacturer or distributor deems that as an important part of how they do business. And please, if you can't afford something then that's no excuse for complaining about "rip-offs".

The pursuit of "cheaper everything" isn't necessarily the answer. I think it's great that some niche brands are available direct. It adds diversity to the market, but I don't want to buy all my Hi-Fi like that!

It would be better if we had a thread focusing the dealers who are screwing up the Hi-Fi industry. I'm pretty lucky. I found a dealer who knows what they're doing and who isn't afraid to express a strong opinion. If your only experience of dealers is the type who will say anything to get your cash then I can sympathise how folk would feel ripped off. So why not do something about that?!

If the service is poor and the dealer is only interested in your cash then get active. Tell them to change or they'll lose your custom. If things don't change then walk. It's that simple. You're next action is then to out the crap dealers. This should be done in a responsible way - no rants or childish bitching - this forum doesn't need a load of flak.

What prompted this was from another thread where the fact was stated that product in the UK is quite often twice the price here than in other markets like Singapore and the US.

Well I have been to both and visited stores in both. The stores are bigger and cleaner, the staff are more skilled and intelligent, the facilities are better, the service is better and the *same* product, even some made in the UK are often half the price people have to pay here for them.

Justify that Mr Retailer.

[Chris Frost]

I'm not an effing retailer.

Go buy your Hi-Fi from Singapore or the States then.