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Thread: NVA interconnects

  1. #131
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Possible explanation for the fragility of NVA Sound Pipes when fitted with Neutrik ProFi connectors




    Without wishing in any way to kick the “hornet’s nest” of recent discussion, I would like to propose a possible explanation for the reported fragility of the NVA Sound Pipe interconnects when fitted with Neutrik ProFi connectors, as shown in the photograph above.

    According to the NVA site (http://www.nene-valley-audio.com/frames/nva/cables.html), the Sound Pipe interconnects “are revolutionary new cables utilizing military grade materials used in jet fighters.” If one looks at the photograph one can see two copper-coloured coaxial cables about 2mm in diameter. I believe the cable used is 085 semi-rigid coaxial cable. This coaxial cable has an outer diameter of 0.085"(= 2.16mm), hence the designation, with a solid copper sheath. The dielectric is either solid polythene or PTFE and the inner conductor is ‘copperweld’ which may, or may not, be silver-plated. It has a diameter of 0.020" (= 0.51mm). ‘Copperweld’ is the trade name for copper covered steel wire. It is made by an exclusive molten welding process, whereby a thick copper covering is inseparately welded to a steel core.

    There are two points to note here: first, the cables are stiff, but malleable - when bent or formed into a shape, the shape remains; and second, the inner conductor is very thin.

    In preparing these cables special cable trimming tools are required. To trim back the solid copper outer a special jig is used which prevents the fine-toothed coping saw to cut any deeper than the wall thickness, so as not to damage the dielectric. When the dielectric is trimmed back, again a special jig is used which prevents the inner conductor from being ‘nicked’ and damaged. If the latter jig is not used, it is very difficult to guarantee the inner core has not been nicked and thus weakened.

    From the photograph it would appear that the outer conductor and dielectric of the cables have been trimmed back together, exposing several mm of the inner conductor. And where the one of the inner conductors has broken, it is right at the point where both the outer conductor and dielectric have been cut back, suggesting the inner wire had become nicked in the process.

    Now despite the weakness, the nicking of the inner conductor would not necessarily lead to failure if the cables were fully and firmly supported. The construction of the Sound Pipes, have the two semi-rigid cables held in contact along their length by a sheath of heat-shrink sleeving, over which a woven polymer braid is used, presumably for cosmetic reasons. (Electrically connecting the two outer conductors together means the interconnect has half the capacitance per unit length, compared with that of a single cable). The two cables clad in the heat-shrink sleeving means the overall assembly is now quite stiff.

    NVA offer two options for the connectors fitted to the Sound Pipes. One is the fitting of more conventional style RCA phonos, where one assumes the cable clamping arrangement is sufficient to prevent the cable being ‘flexed’ with respect to the connector. The second option is to fit Neutrik ProFi RCA connectors, and these are the connectors shown in the photograph.

    The cable clamping arrangement of the ProFi connectors uses a plastic collet: sufficient for flexible coaxial cables, but not for the pair of semi-rigid cables used here. It is quite likely the compliant plastic collet can allow the cable pair to flex within the collet, and if any of the inner conductors have been weakened they will break at point of weakness.

    This is a criticism of neither semi-rigid cable, nor of the ProFi connectors: they just weren’t designed to be used together.

    I believe this explains the fragility of these interconnects when terminated with these specific connectors.
    Barry

  2. #132
    Join Date: May 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    My goodness, this poor old thread has been chewed to death. All Nick wanted to know was if anybody had tried NVA cables.
    Thank you Geoff! I will be picking up these interconnects tomorrow and will be reporting back on how they sound. That is all that is important to me.

  3. #133
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
    Hi Marco.

    If that was your intention, I'm afraid it didn't come across that way. If you look at your words that I quoted, the discussion of HFS or NVA was to be strictly banned "not only in his thread, but throughout the forum in future".

    To me, this looks like you're saying such discussion would be banned henceforth on this reopened thread until it is closed and then also banned from the forum in future. It wouldn't make sense to ban mention of HFS or RD on this thread after it was closed because nobody could post anyway.

    Your comments also made it clear that you had only reopened the thread for balance and comments on NVA interconnects, not all the other stuff. To me, your rationale of not wanting AoS to be infected with "poison" would make it difficult to see why the off-topic posts on his thread are something you'd want to carry on. If we return to the OP and his question, it looks like massive thread crapping to me.

    Just so I'm not quoting you out of context and to save anyone flicking back, here is your post in entirety:

    "Ok, the thread was closed last night because I was going to bed and didn't want to log into the forum in the morning with all sorts of pish having kicked off overnight!

    Anyway, I'm out all day today, so the thread will remain locked until I return, when at that point I *may* consider re-opening it. However, if so, it'll only be to summarise and conclude the issues raised about NVA interconnects, including allowing anyone else, such as Andrew, who has had positive experiences with said cables, the opportunity to say so and provide some balance against the criticism."

    However, any discussion about RD or HFS will be strictly banned, not only on this thread, but throughout the forum in future (there will be an announcement made to this effect in due course), as I no longer want AoS infected with that poison."
    Hi Andrew,

    I can't dispute anything you've written, mate, especially in terms of thread crapping (and I can only apologise to the OP for that), but sadly that's often how discussions about NVA go. When one has been subjected to the level of bile and abuse that others and I here have endured from RD (mostly unjustified), it's inevitable that occasionally a response to that slips into the public domain, no matter how much one tries to rise above it. We are, after all, only human. However, the new ruling will put an end to such comment in future!

    When I initially mentioned about the ban on discussing RD and/or HFS on this thread, as well as in future, that was before I received numerous PMs from members asking me to re-open the thread to allow them to make further comment, mainly about the quality of the construction of the cables in question, some of which we're seeing now. Therefore I changed my mind and have allowed both RD and HFS (as well as SSP interconnects or anything else NVA) to be discussed on this thread, but only for a short while, as far as the former is concerned.

    Once this thread has been closed (and the time I have set for this is midnight tonight), all future mention of RD or HFS will be banned forever, although relevant hi-fi discussion about NVA products will remain unaffected. Therefore, look upon this thread as an opportunity for anyone who feels the need to 'vent' (within reason) to do so, as rest assured, such an opportunity will not arise again in future. So if you've got anything to say (free from blatant invective) regarding RD or HFS, or you think RD is wonderful and would love to have his babies, now is the time (until midnight) to get it all off of your chest!!

    As they say, speak now or forever hold your peace...

    Marco.
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  4. #134
    Join Date: Oct 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Figlet108 View Post
    Well I always say, the fastest and most effective way to discredit RD is to just point folks to his site and let him speak for himself.
    Frankly he is better off when Gordon, Paul and Andrew are speaking for him. At least they behave like gentlemen and with dignity.
    Thanks of course but I wasn't speaking for him, I was speaking for myself. My main argument still applies. If anyone might be seen to be doing a bit of reverse shilling its a bad thing to my mind,

  5. #135
    Join Date: Sep 2010

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    Great post Barry! Easily the most constructive on this thread.

    So, given that I am poised to repair said cable, what can I do to fix them properly once and for all so that they don't break again?
    I am open to any connector and process that I can carry out at home.

    Thanks!
    Jason™

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  6. #136
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    YAY!.. I can't wait until midnight...
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  7. #137
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    As previously suggested, a liquid insulator might help, it sets like Mastic so would help to support the cable.

  8. #138
    Join Date: Feb 2011

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    midnight cant come quick enough......this site is a pleasant place to discuss my hobby and get help and advice from those more knowledgeable........I occasionally visit other sites and feel the need to wash my hands afterwards,after very little reading.......glad this is soon to be put to bed.

  9. #139
    Join Date: Jan 2011

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    Thanks Alan and Barry...

    These two posts point out exactly why someone should be concerned (at least w/ the SSPs). As noted, and would have to be the case, the inner signal wire is sheathed by a dielectric to keep it from contacting the outer copper tube or else, in the case of the signal side of the cable, if the inner wire were to touch the copper tube, it would short out. The entire cable would then be one conductor. So, implementation is everything. It seems to make sense to me to peel/cut the outer copper tube of the signal wire BUT leave the dielectric on the signal wire right up until it gets to the tab on the connector. In all the pictures posted so far, including Alan's recent pics with RCA terminations, this has not been done.
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  10. #140
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    I thought forums were a place for people to ask questions, find answers and further enjoy their hobby. Not to act like a bunch of kids, picking on people, slagging people off and generally behaving like spoilt babies.

    Grow up, delete the thread and if you want to discuss cables without dragging up personal issues please do so, otherwise for me this forum is a no no.

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