Valve sound versus solid state...

[chris@panteg]

I believe you can get great performance from valve or SS and also downright awful from both systems.

As for that guy's comment 'well it reminds me of a certain Chris Frankland who was forever banging on about why Linn and Naim systems are for genuine music lovers and if you liked valve amps and the like ' you were an imagery freak or soundstage fanatic.

[anthonyTD]

I moved from a valve-based system to a transistor-based system some years ago. I didn't care about the technology and the things I listen for in music have stayed the same. There just isn't a black-and-white recipe mix for valves or transistors and I could quote valve equipment that sounds like trannies and solid-state equipment that definitely sounds like valves. It's all about circuit design and implementation.

agreed!!!
A...

[Marco]

Indeed, Chris. Perhaps we should set our membership the question:

Define what is considered as a "genuine music lover"? That should keep folk going for a few weeks!!

Martin gets it spot on here, as others and myself have said many times:

It's all about circuit design and implementation.

I moved from Naim NAC52/NAP135s and ECS 200W ss monoblocks to my current TD 30W Class A Copper P/P valve amp and Croft Charisma-X valve preamp, and it does 'PRAT' every bit as well as the former did, and everything else better! I'm sure that anyone who heard the AOS system at the Scalford Hall show would say that 'pace rhythm & timing' wasn't exactly missing!

All of which simply means that I can access more of the 'music' in my music collection, if you see my meaning, and also be in the position where *I* choose what's played and not my system...

Thing is, there are a lot of shit valve amps out there which give 'the side' a bad name - and many of them represent expensive shit, too! That's the problem. The fact is, outside of the D.I.Y arena and some Chinese imports it costs serious money to buy a genuinely good, musically capable, valve amp. Aside from circuit design and implementation, high quality mains and output transformers, often hand-wound in the best examples (and other bespoke components), which are central to achieving the above, don't come cheap!!

For that reason, not that many people (out with of D.I.Yers) who are used to buying 'mainstream' hi-fi have been exposed to what a great valve amp can do, and so often arrive at false conclusions based on limited experience. Indeed, I would conclude that anyone who thinks valve amps "lack so much musical information" have never heard a really good one!

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Well my current system is not my my best or most expensive but i enjoy listening to it and i find it hard to walk away from sometimes especially the turntable ' so the techie must be doing it for me, i listen to it and i just lose myself and float off somewhere.

Does that mean i am a music lover or imagery freak' ohh by the way the snell's are not great imaging sort of speakers anyway.

[DSJR]

You're a genuine music lover with a good stereo....

I can't go more than a couple of days without music of some sort. Lack of funds and time prevents me buying any or much more new music to enjoy, but my music collection is vast enough to find a fair bit of variety.

I answered on the PFM question. It matters not what technology is used if the implentation is right. A good amp shouldn't have a "sound" anyway (as much as possible) but there is something very comforting about the appearance of a valve amp I found and I regret that the Croft is in a cabinet so I can't see through the mesh top...

[kalozois100]

For that reason, not that many people (out with of D.I.Yers) who are used to buying 'mainstream' hi-fi have been exposed to what a great valve amp can do, and so often arrive at false conclusions based on limited experience. I would conclude that anyone who thinks that valve amps "lack so much musical information" have never heard a really good one!

I am in the unfortunate position to never have heard a really good valve amp. But then again i wasn't around for Jesus's resurrection either but i strongly believe it happened!!

[Marco]

But then again i wasn't around for Jesus's resurrection either but i strongly believe it happened!!

Hahaha... Priceless!

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

I am in the unfortunate position to never have heard a really good valve amp. But then again i wasn't around for Jesus's resurrection either but i strongly believe it happened!!

Amen Brother Kalozosis...

I will take part in this thread properly when I am back up and running valve wise. Interestingly for the last week and a bit I have been using my Chapter Audio Signature pre and Cuplet power amplifier and,.... well its not half bad(but is it half good or better ?).... I may well do a full write up comparison of Valve and Solid State in my set up, when I bring my RM200 amp back into the downstairs system.


I read the full thread on PFM and well....Richard's question is an interesting one. To my mind its about how we listen and how we describe listening. In away you could say that it is impossible or very difficult to describe how music sounds on either a valve amplifier or solid state one, without falling back on the tried and tested terms we all have used to try and describe the sound of how those item and how they reproduce the music played on them.

I don't believe that those who listen to valve based systems do so for a sound and those who listen to solid state don't, but listen to music how can that be stated ? There is nothing to say that many choose SS instead of valves because wait for it....THEY prefer the sound of SS amplification.

The neutrality question.....vs flavour something Marco asked about a while ago is an interesting aspect of this. Should a system reproduce without adding anything to the recording being played. Maybe and maybe not. The difficult question is...unless you where there, how do you know, that what you are hearing isn't the way the recording is supposed to sound;or not as the case maybe. If its live this may be possible but if not, well what about the way the band/musicians and producer want it to sound. How do you know ? Its not as simple as such and such sounds that way or so and so sounds that way when singing...there are lots of variables in this just as there are in putting an audio system together.

What is the truth...? How should instruments and singer sound like ? Even if you are very knowledgeable about the sound signature of an instrument the place where it is played recorded will have an effect on the final sound, as to will the state of your ears or if you have a cold or not. So that sound signature may be altered by the acoustic it is in.

All audio systems fail to reproduce the sound of music in some way, a perfect beast does not exist that I know of and our listening rooms will always have the final say. So should we not bother...of course we should. If its your passion like mine you will care about getting the system that suits you (should it ?) and your room (it must do this to work right). Its a journey and it is different and similar for some of us but should be fun at the end of the day.


I love music..I have thousands of recordings on vinyl, cd and tapes (plus I go to concerts when interesting ones come up) does this make me any more into listening to MUSIC than the guy or gal who only has a few hundred....I would say No.

I don't think it is possible to describe MUSIC without referring to SOUND, after all music is sound...and all those terms have to be used to provide points of reference. Can it be possible to describe music on valve or ss kit...without it falling into describing the characteristics of that kit....we shall see.


Regards D S D L

[kalozois100]

But then again i wasn't around for Jesus's resurrection either but i strongly believe it happened!!

Glad you all liked my comment - it was totally spontaneous
Yeah valve owners admire valves optically as well as audioably from what i've read. Personally i have never got over how good valves looked in re runs of Flash Gordan back in late seventies when i was a youngster. the sets where loaded with them. Even on a black and white tv with the room lights off they looked awesome!! Ah yes and what about all those friday night horror black and white films. Full of valves too. In Black and white frankenstein films he needed loads of them valves to come back from the dead!!
It wasn't electricity that resurrected him but listening to valve music. its the movie industries most guarded secret!
I think am on a roll and i havent even got valve gear

[chris@panteg]

One interesting comparison i did way back in 1997 , i had just bought a pair of 2nd audio mon's with 2a3 triodes and a/b it against my Concordant Exemplar 100 SS amp built for Doug Dunlop by Les Wolstenholm none other.

The difference was quite simply dramatic 'forget about tone/timbre/soundstage and the like ,there was a guy with me who was buying the Concordant.

He put it so perfectly ,we listened to Beethoven i think and his reaction to the 2nd audio's was OMG the orchestra's there ,it was like pulling the curtains away from the speakers or moving from the back of the theater to the front row.