Gromit's music centre...

[chris@panteg]

Well, this is all rather frustrating. Re-fitted and re-set the arm/cartridge this morning, taking absolute care over everything. Then had a play with different tracking weights and vta on the cartridge but cannot really inject any life into the system. I now have the opportunity to borrow another phonostage which will either rule out or blame my Sony amp.

It just sounds so dull and uninspiring. Sadly I don't really have the funds to start throwing another psu at the deck - not yet anyway - nor to spend out on a cartridge with more clarity.

Richard , what you're describing is pretty much what I'm getting with mine ,and that's with a vantage psu ,bearing ,platter ,309 and 33EV !

I'm starting to think its just the way the deck sounds ,bland and boring .

[DSJR]

Hopefully a cheapish suggestion before you throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Use a lightweight Techie style headshell wit the carbon, if you're not doing this already and try for an ebony armboard, which I suspect this arm needs (Rega's too on one of these decks) - rigid but enough to offer better? hf absorption (he says, searching for possible reasons...)

[Gromit]

Hopefully a cheapish suggestion before you throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Use a lightweight Techie style headshell wit the carbon, if you're not doing this already and try for an ebony armboard, which I suspect this arm needs (Rega's too on one of these decks) - rigid but enough to offer better? hf absorption (he says, searching for possible reasons...)

Thanks Dave - ideas worth trying, certainly. Not sure the Jelly would balance out with a Tecchy shell as it's so light, being less than half the weight of the Jelco shell, but if I get time later will give it a go. The c/weight is quite close to the bearing housing as it is. Interestingly, when I had the 2M Black (what a gorgeous cartridge that is!) it sounded demonstrably better in the Technics shell vs the Sumiko HS12, using the same h/shell leads.

There's plenty of inner detail going on here, and bass is firm, but there's a hardness to vocals/ride cymbal etc which isn't easy on the ears. The presence region has been given a little too much presence - and the ProAcs aren't really shrinking violets either (very different to the Ref 8's which I really don't like). Still love the wee things though.

The Jelco clearly has a good grip on proceedings, but I'm also wondering if the brand new arm leads are bedding in. Not that I'm a true believer in such things happening, or rather drastic change coming about because of it, but it's always a possible reason. Also, the electrical qualities of the wires (capacitance etc) may be a fair bit different to the std Technics and affecting the Carbon's performance.

All possibly shots in the dark but you've got to try.

A couple of hours' listening at decent volume this morning has me with the sneaking suspicion that it is a slightly uneasy cart/arm marriage. The Carbon was, as I said a while back, an absolute cracker in the Technics arm - synergy doing its thing very nicely indeed.

[Ammonite Audio]

The Jelco clearly has a good grip on proceedings, but I'm also wondering if the brand new arm leads are bedding in.

What arm lead are you using? If it's the pink Jelco Neglex, then I believe you may have your culprit - that Neglex is an awful, thick, dull sounding thing, in my experience of course. An Audio Origami arm cable solved the problem in fine style when I had my SA-750D.

[Gromit]

What arm lead are you using? If it's the pink Jelco Neglex, then I believe you may have your culprit - that Neglex is an awful, thick, dull sounding thing, in my experience of course.

It is - although the sound I'm hearing, whilst not the polar opposite of your description, certainly doesn't lean that way. If anything it's quite light-weight, lacking body and gravitas - bright and a tad harsh aswell.

I wouldn't rule out trying a different cable, but am very reluctant to start buying stuff to be honest. Could get expensive!

[jagdesign]

Have you tried using the oil damping Richard? In all honesty it does sound like an arm/cart mismatch, worth checking the numbers if you haven't already http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...anceCalculator

[Gromit]

Have you tried using the oil damping Richard? In all honesty it does sound like an arm/cart mismatch, worth checking the numbers if you haven't already http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...anceCalculator

James - I haven't yet checked if there's any damping oil in the arm, but to be honest I'm not overly sure how to do this. I put the numbers into the VE calculator earlier today and they come up at just a smidge over 12Hz so whilst at the top end, there's nothing drastically out of range.

I also see that the AT91 has a carbon cantilever - I was under the (false) impression that Rega had added this, or at least persuaded the big AT to do a run of them.

[jagdesign]

Yeah 12Hz isn't too bad.

You can check the oil bath by simply unscrewing the cap on top of the bearing housing and dipping a cotton bud or similar to check for oil. I filled mine with all the oil included then replaced the cap. I've read that how tight you have the cap effectively dials in how much damping you have, I can sort of see this working but am slightly sceptical. Nevertheless, using the oil in my case did seem to help the slightly overblown bass I was getting. Might be worth a shot?

[Tarzan]

Bland, boring and flat are the last words l would use to describre the Techie, at least with the standard arm.....................

[Idlewithnodrive]

Bland, boring and flat are the last words l would use to describre the Techie, at least with the standard arm.....................

Exactly the same as that.

As I see it, it pretty much has to be the arm / cart synergy. Just ain't happenin' dude