Which Tannoys, folks?

[jandl100]

Jerry's Parasound Halo is one of the best power amps I've come across in the sonic stakes. Neutral, massive headroom and portrays micro detail like few others.

The Quad 909 I particularly liked, despite its dissenters. Not unlike the Parasound in character but from what I can remember, more "3-D" in presentation. Not ultimately as detailed but close.

Coo - that's a cool reviewlet of my amp, Paul.

So the Quad 909 might be better than the Para in terms of 3D? Blimey - you should hear what the Para can do with my MBLs and my Bushmaster DAC in terms of 3D imaging!

[Marco]

Hi Paul,

Lol - yeah, now we're getting down to the difference in sonic presentation between SE and P/P, for somewhat different reasons... SE does sound 'sweeter'. I like both (when done well), but prefer P/P, as I need the extra 'balls' it gives when playing rock music at realistic levels!

Marco.

[Reffc]

Hi Paul,

Lol - yeah, now we're getting down to the difference in sonic presentation between SE and P/P, for somewhat different reasons... SE does sound 'sweeter'. I like both (when done well), but prefer P/P, as I need the extra 'balls' it gives when playing rock music at realistic levels!

Marco.

Big sensitive speakers (100dB/1w plus) and 10w SET rocks pretty darned well! Yes, for most set ups, P-P's where it's at, agreed. SET, when played well within it's optimal operating envelope does have a sweetness few can match and very low distortion (unless pushed).

Coo - that's a cool reviewlet of my amp, Paul.

So the Quad 909 might be better than the Para in terms of 3D? Blimey - you should hear what the Para can do with my MBLs and my Bushmaster DAC in terms of 3D imaging!

Its difficult (and most probably VERY unreliable) to ever quote from memory Jerry, especially when it comes to my own! In fairness, the system using the 909 was nothing like as revealing as yours (Proac 2000 Ref8 Signatures/Rega P25/Rega preamp and Quad 909) but I compared several power amps and only the Quad gave me that moment.

[jandl100]

I certainly can't and won't compete on the techno-babble side of things (I cherish my ignorance ) but from a listening pov, you do need to be careful when 'sweetness' just becomes smooth rolled-off rez-reduction. Real music is seldom 'sweet', ime, and the closer you get physically to the musicians the less sweet it gets - and I like to sit close up!

[Reffc]

I certainly can't and won't compete on the techno-babble side of things (I cherish my ignorance ) but from a listening pov, you do need to be careful when 'sweetness' just becomes smooth rolled-off rez-reduction. Real music is seldom 'sweet', ime, and the closer you get physically to the musicians the less sweet it gets - and I like to sit close up!

Yup, quite right Jerry but on the flip side, SET has become a byword stereotype for low res, which it most certainly is not. You must have listened to a really good SET-up(doh!)? It can rock, can have the resolution but at the same time there can be something alluring about the presentation which only SET seems to manage. Not ultimately for me (I don't have pockets deep enough for a really good SET) but I have enjoyed some of the better quality SET systems I've listened to.

[jandl100]

Yup, quite right Jerry but on the flip side, SET has become a byword stereotype for low res, which it most certainly is not. You must have listened to a really good SET-up(doh!)? It can rock, can have the resolution but at the same time there can be something alluring about the presentation which only SET seems to manage. Not ultimately for me (I don't have pockets deep enough for a really good SET) but I have enjoyed some of the better quality SET systems I've listened to.

Sure - I had a pair of Cary SET 15W monoblocks - fook me, they rocked with any music. Very hi-rez and bundles of presence. Too much so, at times!
(there's a review in a certain webzine. )

But, as you say, SET to some folks is what they (erroneously) call "valve sound" - way too smooth, coloured, gentle ....

[anthonyTD]

Hi All,
I would like to add my own comments on the subject of what has been discussed in the latter of this thread, i hope that's ok with you paul.
Biasing an amplifier into class A ie; setting the bias of the output devices to draw the maximum current needed for full desired output does not change the class of the amplifiers output stage, ie push-pull to single ended etc.
Unfortunetly this subject has been debated many times before, and if we allow it here, it will continue to poison an otherwise interesting and informative thread.
A...

[Reffc]

Hi All,
I would like to add my own comments on the subject of what has been discussed in the latter of this thread, i hope that's ok with you paul.
Biasing an amplifier into class A ie; setting the bias of the output devices to draw the maximum current needed for full desired output does not change the class of the amplifiers output stage, ie push-pull to single ended etc.
Unfortunetly this subject has been debated many times before, and if we allow it here, it will continue to poison an otherwise interesting and informative thread.
A...

Thank you Anthony, and yes, the chap who rebuilt my (last) valve amp said pretty much exactly the same thing to me a few years back which is what my understanding is based on. The thread has wandered slightly off course (as they do) so in the spirit of getting it back on course............................................ .................................................. ................................................T-minus 4 weeks before the Turnberrys arrive. I'd offer a bakeoff, but the thought of cramming in some lockwood majors and other suitably large Tannoys into my listening room might not be too practical

[simonms]

Congrats Paul!

I read this from the yahoo groups site specifically regarding amps for westminsters but interesting i thought, I loved Tom's TD KT88 when he was here, i think its the nicest amp i have heard on my speakers.

I know there are many people who think that low power valve kit is the best
route to take with Tannoys but having now spent nearly 8 years with
Westminster Royals I would have to disagree.

I love valve kit and it can sound stunning and I have tried many different
valve amps including very low power SE's and much higher powered push pull
designs in my music room. They all have two thing in common. They all have a
very slight bias towards the treble end of the frequency spectrum. This in
my view tends to push the image too far out into the room which makes them a
bit 'in your face'. They are also all slightly shy in the bass and lack
control on very heavy low bass such as some 32' organ pedal notes. On some
music they are fabulous but on other large scale music they come up short.
My music philosophy is that a system should be able to cut the mustard on
all types of music and if it cannot do this then it is doing something
wrong. My listening tastes vary from chamber music through large scale
classical stuff to jazz and popular music.

One of the major strengths of the Westminster Royal is the way is produces
bass both quantity and quality, which is hardly surprising given that each
cabinet has a 15" bass unit firing down two 11' folded horns. They are only
6db at 18hz and to me it makes no sense to use an amplifier that is not
capable of fully exploiting this. After much experimentation I have opted to
use Meridian solid state amplification, specifically the GO2 dual mono
control unit and G57 power amplifier (200wpc) connected with DNM solid core
cables (Tannoys love solid core cable) terminated with WBT Nextgen RCA's and
WBT 0600 banana plugs on the LS cables. This combination works stunningly
well across all genres and can make the hairs on the back of my neck stand
on end. I have friends who are keen valve enthusiasts (mainly Audionote) who
are completely blown away by this combination.

I know that this view makes mine a siren voice and I now it is not what you
were expecting to hear, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating and
it really does work remarkably well

[Reffc]

I'm with you there Simon as with my previous Horning Agathons, they responded far better with a muscular SS feeding them than with any valve amp. It takes a special valve amp to cleanly exploit deep bass with the proper speed, damping and transience. Cheaper route by far IMHO is to bolt on a big power amp. I am tempted to keep the Croft pre (it's a stunner) and I will try the power with the Tannoys, but would also like to try a few SS power amps with it including the 909 which I rate very highly.