Which Tannoys, folks?

[Reffc]

Completely agree, Dave. The Pepper Pot tweeters and Alnico magnets, quite simply, are a fundamental part of the TRUE Tannoy DC sound, so for that reason the Kensingtion SEs are really where it starts with 'proper' modern DC Tannoys.

For that reason, anyone contemplating buying Turnberrys, as you allude to, should save their money and look out for a deal on used/ex-demo Kensingtions, as sonically, the difference between both is really *that* marked, and is one of the reasons why vintage Monitor Gold drivers offer the highest SPPV option, simply because Alnico magnets and Pepper Pot tweeters are automatically part of the equation!



Although I agree partly with where you're coming from, Paul, what I meant was that, to my ears (and I've owned plenty), no slim floorstanders with multiple arrays of teeny-weeny drive units, can produce the sheer gut-wrenching scale (the type which can pressurise a room and make you almost feel queasy) of any speaker featuring 15" drive units in wide-baffle cabinets, such as my Lockwood Majors - and for that matter, some JBL K2s I heard recently at a friend's house.

You can strap as many 6 or 8-inch drive units to tall, skinny, cabinets as you like, and you'll get deep bass, for sure, but that's an entirely different thing from bombastic, realistic SCALE, and so in comparison with speakers with wide-baffle cabinets ('wardrobes' as you referred to them), with ONE 15" driver per cabinet, they will always sound 'small'. You need to shift AIR!

It's a difficult effect to put into words, but those that have heard what I'm describing will know exactly where I'm coming from

Marco.

I know exactly where you're coming from Marco having owned Horning Agathon Ultimates, with each very large cabinet housing not one but TWO 12 inch bass units They plumbed the depths like few others. Can multi-array long throw 6 inch units get close? Yes is the answer. Does it have the same effect? No I'd say. it never sounds as natural and at lower volumes especially you do lose that sense of scale.

Kensingtons would be nice. New prices are out the window with the fairies though. Much better sense to think about Lockwood Audio's Majors IMHO. In fact, it's a no-brainer since they could be "upgraded" at a later date with little reds, or if it has to be, then MGs.

[Marco]

]I know exactly where you're coming from Marco having owned Horning Agathon Ultimates, with each very large cabinet housing not one but TWO 12 inch bass units

It can be good, but I still prefer the bass you get from one DC 15-incher.

Much better sense to think about Lockwood Audio's Majors IMHO. In fact, it's a no-brainer since they could be "upgraded" at a later date with little reds, or if it has to be, then MGs.

Absolutely right. The other advantage of the vintage drive units is that they use paper cones, and so even huge 15" drivers can move very fast, ensuring rapid transient response and excellent timing, for big drive units, which is also one of the reasons why vintage Tannoys sound rather different from the modern Prestige range, using the stiffer, heavier, cones made by Tannoy today

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

I know exactly where you're coming from Marco having owned Horning Agathon Ultimates, with each very large cabinet housing not one but TWO 12 inch bass units They plumbed the depths like few others. Can multi-array long throw 6 inch units get close? Yes is the answer. Does it have the same effect? No I'd say. it never sounds as natural and at lower volumes especially you do lose that sense of scale.

Kensingtons would be nice. New prices are out the window with the fairies though. Much better sense to think about Lockwood Audio's Majors IMHO. In fact, it's a no-brainer since they could be "upgraded" at a later date with little reds, or if it has to be, then MGs.

Hi Paul,
I can also offer my experience on the Kensington's after having owned a pair now for around 2 years etc, They are very capable of large scale etc, while still holding it together in the mid range, they are lightning fast on dynamics without the fatigue factor you get from many other speakers in that regard, also, they are not particularly fussy about room placement, [something i find with all the dual concentric Tannoy's i have heard] i am well aware of the Honk you refer to, refering back to the Glenairs etc,however, this is not as easily detectable in the Turnberry's, i am not sure why this is, maybe its down to the size diffrences of the cones, and therefore the cross-over point, as i said earlier, your best bet is to listen to the ones your interested in and make your mind up from there.
Hope this helps.
Anthony,TD...

[hifi_dave]

I'm not a fan of multiple small drivers attempting to do bass and mid at the same time. I know the theory that the total surface area of the small drivers is large enough to produce deep bass but the reality is that the little drivers are throwing themselves around, back and forth and not really doing bass or even clean mid. IMO.

Far better to have a larger driver - 8 inches or more but that necessitates a wide cabinet which is no longer fashionable. Anything beyond a couple of matchsticks in the corners is deemed an eyesore and not acceptable..

[anthonyTD]

I'm not a fan of multiple small drivers attempting to do bass and mid at the same time. I know the theory that the total surface area of the small drivers is large enough to produce deep bass but the reality is that the little drivers are throwing themselves around, back and forth and not really doing bass or even clean mid. IMO.

Far better to have a larger driver - 8 inches or more but that necessitates a wide cabinet which is no longer fashionable. Anything beyond a couple of matchsticks in the corners is deemed an eyesore and not acceptable..

I tend to agree Dave,
As you say, with smaller drivers, in order to attempt real bass reproduction, the cone excursions are so large that the speech coil is often running out of its magnetic field!
With Large cones like the 15" monitor reds, golds etc, on similar music material, the cones are hardly moving!
A...

[Stratmangler]

That's why I absolutely hate the fashion today for pencil-thin floorstanders with pityful arrays of teensy-weensy 6 or 8-inch drives, trying to reproduce genuine deep bass and realistic SCALE - it just ain't gonna happen!!

You've obviously not heard the Edingdales then.
You'd be very, very surprised what a line array of series/parallel drivers can do

[Marco]

Far better to have a larger driver - 8 inches or more but that necessitates a wide cabinet which is no longer fashionable. Anything beyond a couple of matchsticks in the corners is deemed an eyesore and not acceptable..

Indeed, and blame it on 'WAF', or more specifically, the subservient males in this country who meekly give into it, simply for a quiet life!

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

A large driver can move the air with ease, giving you that satisfying thump effortlessly and cleanly. Somehow the multiple little drivers still sound lightweight and strained, with little bass at low volume levels.

The ultimate, multiple small driver array I ever heard was the ProAc Celefane back in the early 80's. A whole panel of 48, 1 inch tweeters, which had great transparency but not a lot of bass weight and because of the limited excursion, not a lot of volume. It never went into production..

[Marco]

You've obviously not heard the Edingdales then.
You'd be very, very surprised what a line array of series/parallel drivers can do

Sure, Chris. I heard the Edingdales (briefly) at Scalford, and know where you're coming from. It's a very different sound from big Tannoys, though, and as with anything else, comes down to personal taste.

I liked them (and think that Colin has done an amazing job), but have never really got on fully with ribbon tweeters, especially when being used to the presentation of horn tweeters and the 'point source' effect of dual-concentrics, and as such their exceptional imaging qualities, which IMO, no conventional floorstanders can match.

However, as ever, no speaker is perfect, so one must simply choose one's best balance of compromises

Marco.

[Marco]

A large driver can move the air with ease, giving you that satisfying thump effortlessly and cleanly. Somehow the multiple little drivers still sound lightweight and strained, with little bass at low volume levels.

Spot on, Dave

Ultimately, you can't beat the laws of physics! Anthony is also absolutely correct, here:

As you say, with smaller drivers, in order to attempt real bass reproduction, the cone excursions are so large that the speech coil is often running out of its magnetic field!
With Large cones like the 15" monitor reds, golds etc, on similar music material, the cones are hardly moving!

Indeed - and the "hardly moving" bit is very significant, in terms of why bass from big, single, drive units is ALWAYS more convincing that that created by multiple arrays of smaller ones.

Marco.