Synergy

[synsei]

I think it's like flavours of food

While no-one can agree on how things taste, well we can't as we are all different! We can often agree that salmon & broccoli goes together very well indeed

None of it is measurable, or even if it is then how do you define it? But put certain things together & some magic can indeed happen. Even if you have no reason to think that it would given the ingredients.

It's the same as colours. We are all taught at school that this is red, that is green, & that is brown. But at the end of the day, while we may well agree on the names, we can't in any way prove we are seeing the same thing!

We just agree on a name for it

Damn, I'm getting hungry

Wow, what a great way to explain it Mark, have a Brownie point or ten...

Being a non-technical person, I couldn't tell you whether the resistance of the IC's in my system compliments the components, or in fact whether the Mini T sends Pixie Dust into the DM2's to enhance the sound. All I can describe is the joy I feel when I discover a component that works particularly well with the ensemble thus enabling me to hear further into the music. For what ever reason, I am in a happy place with my setup just now and as a result I am enjoying listening to music more than I have ever done before. T'is synergistically good enough for me...

[John]

2+2=5

Ultimately synergy is about serendipity, trial and error, and a good dose of other people's experience to minimise costly mistakes.

+1 but wish I had more of "To minimise costly mistakes"

[John]

Let go back to speakers and amplifiers
Certain amps will match really well with your speakers, others will do a good job and others will sound not so good. So there is something to do with how each is voiced
I know their other more techinical factors, but I had amps in my system with very similar power yet with each one have sounded different. (e.g Difference between the Argen Mini T and Bantam Gold with high efficency drivers)

[Puffin]

For me, I feel that "synergy" happens when the music flows effortlessly and just feels "right". This can be for a number of reasons and may only happen when you change only ONE component, All of a sudden there it is.....Click.

I have been playing with some very basic room treatments recently. Very basic in that they are unwanted album covers that I have placed to deal with wall reflections (If you take a double album cover and make a sort of tent shape out of it and then attach it to the wall). In addition I placed a half open double cover on the top of each speaker. I suspect that it is interfering with reflections from the rear wall and maybe ceiling, but what I do know is that everything seems more right.....explain that? Oh yeah if you invert the covers on the speakers it sounds different again.

[hoopsontoast]

IME, synergy only happens with trial and error rather than matching specifications/expectations.

[Clive]

Regarding 2+2=5, I like to suggest another alternative in addition to 1+2+2=5 where 1 is the environment.

How about when we get the synergy right it's 2+2=4 and when we don't it's 2+2=3?

Let me illustrate with an anecdote. In the mid 90's I went oven to Tom Evans' house to pick up a "Digital Turntable" for a HFN piece I was doing. While I was there - fightng my way through substance-filled smoke - I listened to his system. Tom strives for linear phase throughout his system. He used Ted Jordan drivers and Michell / Trichord electronics. Trichord was Tom and Graham Fowler at that time, they both had parts to play in designing the Michell amps.

The sound of Tom's system was amazing, what I was hearing was a system approach from a single designer.

So 2+2=3, 4 or 5?

Could it be that when it's 3 we're not hearing what the designer intended due to a technical or environmental incompatibility?

When it's 4 we have synergy as the designer intended.

When it's 5 we've been drinking or smoking....

Note that I say "what the designer intended", this may not be the same as a single manufacturer such as Linn who have been known to use many different designers, often plucked straight out of uni.

[jandl100]

IME, synergy only happens with trial and error rather than matching specifications/expectations.

+1, sort of ... I mostly agree, but there are some components like the Denon 103 where you can have a pretty good idea of what will work well based on spec - i.e. high mass arm = good, low mass arm = bad.
Although for that elusive touch of 'magic' (sorry, John! ) only trial and error can really work, imo.

[MartinT]

Yes, I agree. Trial and error can be painful but sometimes it's the only way, with a good dose of intuition to lead you in the right general direction.

[John]

Clive you trying to apply logic to a emotional response and we move back into the subjective vs objective
So lets back to your mathmatical equation
1 =environment
2 = Speakers
3 = Source
4= Cabling
5 = Amplifier
so in theory you have 1+2+3+4+5= Sound
But sound can be changed by changing any ot these so perphaps we looking for another word

[Clive]

Clive you trying to apply logic to a emotional response

I suppose John what I have trouble with is that we magically find a combination that does something it shouldn't. Are we that clever? Or are we simply not that smart when the results are not so good? Maybe we're slapping ourselves on our backs (difficult ) when we get it right, but is that all we are doing - getting it right?

When synergy occurs, there has to be a reason other than pixie dust. If not then it is pure emotion and are we imagining it. Getting a system right helps us feel emotion - is that all it is....getting it right or is it synergy?