Valve sound versus solid state...

[aquapiranha]

Well, I must be ignorant !

Valves ARE better !

Not all valves are created equal though.

When i hear a transistor (or class D/T ) amp that I could live with I would revise my opinion.

that is why I included YMMV in the post.... I have used a Tripath amp, that was lovely

[leo]

I'm still undecided which I thinks best although admit its been a while since I've used a valve amp.
I've still got a WADkit88 with Sowter UO82 output transformers sat under the bed, wouldn't mind gutting it out sometime and making use of the transformers in another design, a later project maybe

[promachos]

In isolation,my Tripath chip amp sounds good.

But then put on a decent PP or SE amp and it is obvious where the Tripath is deficient.

[Marco]

Leo,

Seriously, you should revisit some quality valve amps sometime and see what you think now. Oh, and by "quality" I don't necessarily mean expensive!

Nothing in hi-fi is perfect, and through recent experiments with high quality, well-designed, solid-state amps and respective examples from valves, I can clearly hear that ss amps have the edge on speed of bass transients and an overall quickness of response in the bass region which makes for a 'faster', tighter, slightly punchier sound - but with certain types of music only (mainly rock and dance). But a good valve amp is not lacking at all in this area; it's just that in my experience a good ss amp handles that particular aspect of the sound just that little bit better.

However, in every other area, to my ears, a good valve amp outperforms a good solid-state amp, and by a considerable margin, particularly when you hear a valve amp that gets it *so* right. There is a crystalline clarity, purity, openness and expansiveness with valves that I simply don’t think ss is capable of, no matter how well designed it is – for me, it’s to do with how fundamentally different both technologies behave when implemented in their respective circuits. But it's like anything else: ‘you pays your money and takes your choice’. I could easily see why people with certain tastes in music and presentational priorities wouldn't really 'get' the valve thing, and their choice is as valid as anyone else's.

As far as I'm concerned though, my taste in music is too wide and varied to build a system around what optimises only a small percentage of what I listen to, and then only in a way which isn't really that important to me. The valve amp I use handles the vast majority of my music collection far better than any ss amp I've heard, and that's all that really matters. YMMV

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Leo,

Seriously, you should revisit some quality valve amps sometime and see what you think now. Oh, and by "quality" I don't necessarily mean expensive!

However, in every other area, to my ears, a good valve amp outperforms a good solid-state amp, and by a considerable margin, particularly when you hear a valve amp that gets it *so* right. There is a crystalline clarity, purity, openness and expansiveness with valves that I simply don’t think ss is capable of, no matter how well designed it is – for me, it’s to do with how fundamentally different both technologies behave when implemented in their respective circuits. But it's like anything else: ‘you pays your money and takes your choice’. I could easily see why people with certain tastes in music and presentational priorities wouldn't really 'get' the valve thing, and their choice is as valid as anyone else's.

As far as I'm concerned though, my taste in music is too wide and varied to build a system around what optimises only a small percentage of what I listen to, and then only in a way which isn't really that important to me. The valve amp I use handles the vast majority of my music collection far better than an ss amp I've heard, and that's all that really matters. YMMV

Marco.

I agree totally with the above...

Nothing in hi-fi is perfect, and through recent experiments with high quality, well-designed, solid-state amps and respective examples from valves, I can clearly hear that ss amps have the edge on speed of bass transients and an overall quickness of response in the bass region which makes for a 'quicker', tighter, slightly punchier sound - but with certain types of music only (mainly rock and dance). But a good valve amp is not lacking at all in this area; it's just that in my experience a good ss amp handles that particular aspect of the sound just that little bit better.

I don't agree with the above, (except possibly in relation to SE amps and unsuitable speakers). I listen to both rock and dance and feel that valves still have it here too, but in fairness its more the higher power push pull amps such as my BAT VK75 which has great 6c33c valves that do power and delicacy very well indeed, or my Music Reference RM 200 amp. The BAT is 75 watts the RM200 100 watts.

Solid state, even the very best I have heard just sounds two dimensional and unreal compared to good valve amps IMHO.


Regards D S D L---Neil

[leo]

Leo,

Seriously, you should revisit some quality valve amps sometime and see what you think now. Oh, and by "quality" I don't necessarily mean expensive!

Nothing in hi-fi is perfect, and through recent experiments with high quality, well-designed, solid-state amps and respective examples from valves, I can clearly hear that ss amps have the edge on speed of bass transients and an overall quickness of response in the bass region which makes for a 'faster', tighter, slightly punchier sound - but with certain types of music only (mainly rock and dance). But a good valve amp is not lacking at all in this area; it's just that in my experience a good ss amp handles that particular aspect of the sound just that little bit better.

However, in every other area, to my ears, a good valve amp outperforms a good solid-state amp, and by a considerable margin, particularly when you hear a valve amp that gets it *so* right. There is a crystalline clarity, purity, openness and expansiveness with valves that I simply don’t think ss is capable of, no matter how well designed it is – for me, it’s to do with how fundamentally different both technologies behave when implemented in their respective circuits. But it's like anything else: ‘you pays your money and takes your choice’. I could easily see why people with certain tastes in music and presentational priorities wouldn't really 'get' the valve thing, and their choice is as valid as anyone else's.

As far as I'm concerned though, my taste in music is too wide and varied to build a system around what optimises only a small percentage of what I listen to, and then only in a way which isn't really that important to me. The valve amp I use handles the vast majority of my music collection far better than any ss amp I've heard, and that's all that really matters. YMMV

Marco.

Marco,

Well I'm not biased, infact I go with anything I find sounds best be it valves, SS or even classD

I would like ago at building something, not sure what exactly yet
I'm not a huge fan of SE valve amps tbh, I appreciate why people love them but I also understand why others don't even with very high sensitive speakers it would have to be PP for me

[DSJR]

Well, I'd be delighted to get my Quad II's going again with some later Epos ES14's, as the combo was so good and my current room isn't big. What I described earlier has the speakers adding an organic quality and the amps giving it as straight as possible. It can even do 3-D if the recording allows it, but doesn't if it isn't there.

[promachos]

Quad 11s are nice,nicer if modded with modern resistors and caps,but ultimately lacking compared to the "other" valve amps i have.

They don't get used very often unfortunately.

[kbuech]

I agree totally with the above...


Solid state, even the very best I have heard just sounds two dimensional and unreal compared to good valve amps IMHO.


Regards D S D L---Neil

Hi Neil,

If you have not heard it already, you may want to listen to the YBA Integre integrated amp or it's less expensive brother, the Audio Refinement Complete integrated amplifier (which I own). Both were designed by Yves-Bernard André of YBA, a French electronics firm widely admired for their rigorously, if sometimes unconventionally, applied engineering. Both amps sound tube-like with no harshness or grain. Yet both are VERY detailed with excellent soundstaging and a realistic presentation of the musicians/vocalists.

Cheers,

Kurt

[Haselsh1]

I fully comply with what has been said about solid state amplification and bass speed. At the moment, in between valve amps, I am using a monster of a studio amplifier with around 300 Watts on tap. Whilst this amp is on loan I have noticed a vast depth to the bass and a completely effortless way of presenting low frequencies that, to be honest, I've never heard before especially from a valve amplifier. The big difference though between this amplifier and previous incarnations of valves is the midrange purity and delicacy. OK, I have mainly used 300B types but the 'air' and 'space' that these amplfiers create in the treble is astonishing.

So, what would I rather have...? Both I think. I love the sheer effortlessness of the bass that 300 Watts of solid state brings but one cannot deny the sheer elegance of a valve midrange. As most of my music is female vocal and acoustic it would make great sense to go back to valve.