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Thread: Valve amplifiers

  1. #41
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    ..and conversely, a 3db increase in speaker efficiency halves the power needed to achieve the same SPL's. John is quite correct though in that the impedance curve of the speaker will play a big part in this.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Marco,

    Welcome to AoS, btw

    Thing is, you're not the OP of this thread, Chris (Sarnies) is - which is why I was rather confused, as I indeed it appears Ali was!

    Marco.

    All this stemmed from post #13 in the thread mate.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    ..and conversely, a 3db increase in speaker efficiency halves the power needed to achieve the same SPL's. John is quite correct though in that the impedance curve of the speaker will play a big part in this.
    Indeed and attempting to match amp and speakers just using power output and sensitivity figures is often a reciepe for disaster i.e buying the wrong amp. Been there, done that.

    However most of these super-sensitive +100db speakers tend to be single driver efforts so the impedence curve/change won't be too drastic.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > Troels Gravesen Faital 3WC-15.

  4. #44
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    These are the speakers in question-


  5. #45
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    Well chaps, if you’re going to start talking about power amp sonic signatures I’m going to have to do a bit of this

    So far, once the measurable stuff has been sorted, I haven’t been able to tell the difference between one power amp and another.

    This doesn’t mean that none exists and it doesn’t mean others can’t hear any.

    What it may mean is for those of us with average hearing wishing to listen to music rather than analyse sonic characteristics of equipment, the measurable stuff is what is important.
    Single spur balanced Mains. Self built music server with 3 seperate linear PSU, Intel i5, 16 GB RAM no hard drive (various Linux OS). Benchmark Dac2 HGC, single ended XLR interconnects/Belkin cable. Exposure 21RC Pre, Super 18 Power (recap & modified). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp. Hand built Monitors with external crossovers , Volt 250 bass & ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621 Mid & Scanspeak D2905/9300 Hi. HD595 & Beyer 880 (600 ohm) cans.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
    -Bertrand Russel

    John.

  6. #46
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    More info here-

    http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412510/kl...i-measurements

    Seems they are not as sensitive as advertised.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welder View Post
    Well chaps, if you’re going to start talking about power amp sonic signatures I’m going to have to do a bit of this

    So far, once the measurable stuff has been sorted, I haven’t been able to tell the difference between one power amp and another.

    This doesn’t mean that none exists and it doesn’t mean others can’t hear any.

    What it may mean is for those of us with average hearing wishing to listen to music rather than analyses sonic characteristics of equipment, the measurable stuff is what is important.

    I'd guess that how the amp deals with the impedance curve of the speaker it's connected to plays a big part in the resultant sound. IMHO.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    I'd guess that how the amp deals with the impedance curve of the speaker it's connected to plays a big part in the resultant sound. IMHO.
    Yes - and people mistake this for the 'sound' of the amplifier.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > Troels Gravesen Faital 3WC-15.

  9. #49
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    Just to put this in perspective a little.

    I know someone who has a set of Harbeth Super HL5 speakers (86dB/1W/1m) and uses my old Exposure xx (55 Watts per channel) to power them. He listens in a reasonable sized room at approx 5.5 metres away from the baffle line.
    When he bought the speakers a few of us suggested that it was time to move the Exposure on; basically it just didn’t have the grunt for loud (85dB to 95dB) listening with the HL5s.

    Using the calculator above this gives around 92dB rounding the listening position to 15’.
    I’m rather fond of the Hl5; nice tone and even response and I used to own the Exposure xx and I know it was starting to clip badly at around 51 Watts when I had it. I doubt it has got any better.
    The HL5 when measured did approximately 84dB/1W/1m.
    Putting in the new values gives 90dB; hardly earth shattering volume.
    But, ideally we need another 20dB headroom before clipping and loud to me at least is 100dB +.
    Erm, that’s about 450 Watts to produce around 100dB without clipping

    For my speakers 93dB should I want to listen at concert level and not have the amp clip I need to be looking at 350 Watts, or more

    Going by the above and assuming the math is correct it seems more than likely that some of us at least are listening to a system in clipping mode and apparently don’t even notice. It does make me wonder.
    Single spur balanced Mains. Self built music server with 3 seperate linear PSU, Intel i5, 16 GB RAM no hard drive (various Linux OS). Benchmark Dac2 HGC, single ended XLR interconnects/Belkin cable. Exposure 21RC Pre, Super 18 Power (recap & modified). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp. Hand built Monitors with external crossovers , Volt 250 bass & ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621 Mid & Scanspeak D2905/9300 Hi. HD595 & Beyer 880 (600 ohm) cans.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
    -Bertrand Russel

    John.

  10. #50
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    Well I'd say that the vast majority of us do not listen at anything like concert levels, if we did we'd be getting a swift visit from the boys in blue. I mean c'mon, how many of us seriously listen to music in our living rooms at 120db?

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