Amplifier advice for new Harbeth Compact 7s

[JJack]

Personally, I was trying to help you achieve what I know the C7ES is capable of without prompting you to spend thousands of Dollars/Pounds on an amp.

I use the Harbeth range every day (except Christmas day) and I know how good they can be but they do need good stands to provide solid, taut bass and they do need to be away from walls. Having made sure that is OK, you should be able to achieve the desired results without spending a fortune.

Here, I use Croft and Naim with particularly good results. I also get great sounds with Rega amps, Albarry, EAR, LFD and Puresound. I've also been getting nice sounds from vintage Crown amps. The speakers aren't fussy and are an easy load for the amp, so you don't need Kilowatts of power.

Being in the States you have access to many good amps at far better prices than we have here, so why not try a few using your pre and see what suits. I'd advise not to look at low powered valve/tube amps though.

Oh, I appreciate the advice, I just was chuckling a little bit.

I'm running them with a loaner Naim XS right now and getting more of the sound that I'd like.

Going to try the LFD next if I can arrange a loaner unit.

[Tarzan]

l use four different amps with my Compact 7ES2s, a Class A Jungson JA 88D, the Fabled Mini-T, Muse M50 25W T-amp and an olden but golden Lynwood Emerald intergrated, and all sound superb but in different ways, the Harbs are relatively unfussy of electronics,l use an old SONY CD player that is on its last legs and this stills sounds good, you can definately tell what amp you are using at the time, but the Harbs are quite forgiving, even in my 11f x 12f room they sound awesome, you really would have to get it badly wrong to get a bad sound from these speakers( the above refers to my system and room), hope this helps

[hifi_dave]

I have read posts, mainly on other forums, that Harbeth are difficult speakers but they most definitely are not.

As very accurate and transparent speakers, they do show what's in front of them but they aren't picky at all. They can be driven well by all manner of amps as I have proven to myself by using everything from Leak Stereo 20, Quad II and Radford STA 15 to modern day amps like the Albarry, Naim,Croft, EAR, LFD and the wonderful little Rega Brio R.

As with all other speakers they do need a bit of care to use good stands of the correct height and to be sited a bit away from walls, other than that, just plonk and enjoy.

[JJack]

Thanks everyone.

Currently auditioning a Naim XS integrated, and I am now hearing a bit of that plummy bass that others have mentioned. Not unpleasant.

Would love to find a Croft in the States, as several have mentioned that.

I'll be checking out the LFD IV and the Luxman integrateds within the next week.

[DSJR]

The better current Naim integrateds have a meaty bass, but the treble reproduction pales when compared to other good integrateds IMO. There's a whole world of delicacy and timbre you haven't heard yet methinks.

[RobHolt]

Aha! - so Tony L isn't deaf after all!



Treble issues with the SHL5 / PL combo by any chance?

Sorry hifi-dave, but I am far from the only person I know of to have heard Harbeth models with screechy (OK, let's say over-enthusiastic) treble.

They really are not a warm and cosy pipe&slippers speaker firm, imo. They often get the tonal balance pretty much right, in my view. As you'd expect of a speaker brand in the BBC Tradition. Quite what happened in the SHL5 I don't know - maybe they were trying to sell to the pro crowd!

As i visited Tony when he had the PL/HL5 combo and took along some alternative amplifiers perhaps i could clarify.

I heard his PL/C7ES pairing and liked it, plus I also owned a pair for several months. No particular issues other than the usual ones which afflict nearly all loudspeakers with a crossover between large mid unit and 1" dome tweeter.

The same amplifier on the HL5 sounded oddly out of focus and phasey in the crossover range - not bright - just not as clean and seamless as one might expect.

A SS Quad 306 made the situation much better in that area, but didn't go far enough and on balance Tony decided to return to large Tannoys.

On the PL amplifiers, they have high output impedance and they will alter the sound of most loudspeakers where the impedance becomes reactive, which surprise surpriser in around the crossover points and around the system LF resonance. If you doubt this, shove a measurement mic in front and see for yourself what changing amplifier source impedance does to the response.

So, in conclusion the PL changes the sound of the Harbeth away from that intended by the designer. If you like that effect - and it is demonstrably 'effect' - that's marvellous.
if you want the Harbeth to sound as Mr Shaw intended you need a clean amplifier with low output impedance. Harbeth use Quad but you could substitute many others.

Dave is a Harbeth dealer and could I'm sure recommend something.

Rob

[Elephantears]

Rob, you've actually clarified Tony's Harbeth experience more than we ever did on the long Harbeth thread at the time, so thanks for that. Personally I've not heard the crossover issue that he was so plagued by, but it may be I'm just not trained to hear it. He had a particular issue with siblilance, and I certainly hear that more on Harbeths, but its massively dependent on recording and source; I feel they are just very revealing in that respect.

[DSJR]

Rob, I've personally heard the pair of SHL5's under discussion and in their defense, I really don't think it was they causing the problem, unless their bass characteristics and Tony's room just didn't get on, along with any possible amp mismatch..

In Tony's defense too, the Tannoys I believe he has, were designed for amps with higher than normal (these days) output impedance and these would be a much beter match to his amp I feel (is this borne out on the listening Rob?)

[RobHolt]

Rob, I've personally heard the pair of SHL5's under discussion and in their defense, I really don't think it was they causing the problem, unless their bass characteristics and Tony's room just didn't get on, along with any possible amp mismatch..

In Tony's defense too, the Tannoys I believe he has, were designed for amps with higher than normal (these days) output impedance and these would be a much beter match to his amp I feel (is this borne out on the listening Rob?)

Hi Dave,

No problem with the bass that I can recall, just a slightly diffuse and out of focus effect around the crossover, which got better with the Quad amp indicating an impedance issue, but it didn't totally cure it over the two days I was up at Tony's having a listen. Different room and all that but I don't get that effect with my Rogers 3/6. Tony is visiting me next week so will be interesting to see what he makes of the 3/6.
Of the two Harbeths I've heard I seem to prefer the C7.

On the PL, yes it works very well with the Tannoys.
That sort of amp will be quite chameleon-like depending on the load, and the reactance of the load will be more important than the nominal impedance figure.

The effect I'm describing is surprisingly common where you cross a largish bass/mid to a small tweeter. There are many problems with doing this, but mainly there is a compromise to be made if you want to keep an even power response around the crossover point. Basically, a large mid will be getting very directive as you approach crossover, so power response falls away, while the tweeter is doing the opposite and spraying far and wide. Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to seamlessly marry the two
Flat on axis response is easy, but it falls to pieces off axis.
The solution is either a much smaller mid and/or a larger tweeter radiating area - then you can knit them more easily because the power response is naturally very similar at crossover, and you can also cross at a lower frequency than possible with a small dome.

Probably needs a thread to itself that one

Happy new year.

Rob

[Reid Malenfant]

The effect I'm describing is surprisingly common where you cross a largish bass/mid to a small tweeter. There are many problems with doing this, but mainly there is a compromise to be made if you want to keep an even power response around the crossover point. Basically, a large mid will be getting very directive as you approach crossover, so power response falls away, while the tweeter is doing the opposite and spraying far and wide. Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to seamlessly marry the two
Flat on axis response is easy, but it falls to pieces off axis.
The solution is either a much smaller mid and/or a larger tweeter radiating area - then you can knit them more easily because the power response is naturally very similar at crossover.

Probably needs a thread to itself that one

Happy new year.

Rob

You know your onions Happy new year to you to!