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Thread: The Great Denon DL103 Debate...

  1. #81
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,473
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Yup

    I find at 2.7g everything 'clicks into focus', with the ideal balance between good bass weight and top end clarity. Also, difficult recordings are handled more securely and with greater 'authority'.

    Oh, and on the Technics arm, set the anti-skate to just a fraction under '3'.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  2. #82
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Posts: 126

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    cool. will give it a try later and see how it goes.

    also, my kab deck is finally done, and should be shipping out very soon. let's hope i can get it in by christmas!
    kelvin.

    .my salvation.
    kab technics sl-1200mkII/AT33PTG/achromat . philips dvd963sa (modded analogue stage) as cdp . pioneer tx-410 stereo tuner
    trichord dino phono preamp + dino ncpsu . astintrew at2000+ integrated amp
    alr-jordan note 3

  3. #83
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,473
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Here's hoping, Kelvin!

    Another little tip - have you tried removing the little rubber washer fixed to the back of the bayonet fitting of the headshell? I've found that doing so gives better coupling to the armtube and results in improved detail retrieval and 'focus'.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  4. #84
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: Paris, France

    Posts: 790
    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bong View Post
    But I invested in Doc Feickert's alignment tool, and figured that the 103s weren't getting a proper fit on the stock technics headshell, so I put in an order for the lpgear zupreme. while this was happening, I had brass counterweights and a couple of mats coming in that I could experiment with on my table too ...
    Kelvin,

    I have the Feickart thingy and an SL1210. In my view, the Feickert guage is useless with a Technics tonearm, because the alignment is "Stevenson", which is similiar to the "rega" alignment.

    Essentially, the Stevenson arrangement is optimised for LPs with longer playing sides. I can't remember the exact radii, but Stevenson is good down to inner groove radius of 60mm, whilst Lofgrin & bauerwald are more like 66mm.

    OTOH, if you only listen to classic jazz and classical recordings, with only 15 -> 20 mins a side, the Lofgrin and Bauerwald would most likely be fine. I reverted to Stevenson, more or less, but you can, in effect have you own "custom" alignment, You just choose where you want your null tracking error points to be. With a pivoted arm, there is no "correct" alignment.

    Anyway my Feickart guage is waiting for me to sell it to an interested party.

    cheers
    Last edited by Peter Stockwell; 18-12-2008 at 08:39.
    Intel NUC/Chevron Audio NDF16 dac/Amptastic Mini-1/Audium Comp 5
    Mains Block: Custom-HiFi-Cables PowerBlack Distribution Block (with super conditioner).
    Connected with Reference Fidelity Components Super Neptunes and Speaker Cables.
    Powered by Custom-HiFi-Cables DC2 psus

  5. #85
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: South West England

    Posts: 958
    I'm Guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Do you have any idea what the catalyst was for the significant 'tonal shift' between how the best classic MC cartridges sounded and the di rigeur presentation favoured by most manufacturers nowadays? Surely with the technology available now one could have the best of both worlds, instead of some of the 'chrome-plated', soulless, anaemic sounding crap foisted upon us?
    An interesting question. I do wonder whether it was something to do with trying to get records to sound 'pristine' like CD sometimes does. The usual 'chasing the specs' bollox!

  6. #86
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North East UK

    Posts: 6,358
    I'm InSpace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user34 View Post
    Anyway my Feickart guage is waiting for me to sell it to an interested party.
    Interested party sitting right here!
    Shian7
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Kudakutemo
    kudakutemo

    ari mizu-no tsuki

    Though it be be broken -
    broken again - still it's there:
    the moon on the water.

    - Choshu.

  7. #87
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,832
    I'm Clive.

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    Did the Feickart gauge give correct overhang? This for me is what the Feickart does best, along with rapid setup. Checking many peoples' TTs I've been horrified to find the no one I checked had the correct overhang. This is not surprising as these guys had simply setup via 2 null point protractos. The chances of getting overhang correct by this method is remote. I'll shutup now as this this OT.

  8. #88
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,473
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    An interesting question. I do wonder whether it was something to do with trying to get records to sound 'pristine' like CD sometimes does. The usual 'chasing the specs' bollox!
    Indeed. It's all wrong, wrong, wrong...!

    Those who judge hi-fi equipment of any description solely (or mostly) on that basis, not just cartridges, will always ultimately miss the musical message. That's why I laugh when I see the word "accurate" applied to this, that and the next thing. We seem to have been 'conditioned' to accept that a brighter, more forward, sound is consequently the most accurate when in reality that is far from always being the case.

    I mean, accurate to what I wonder? How an oscilloscope or some inanimate piece of test equipment reads music signals, or the human ear and brain? Both are rather different!! I sometimes wonder if manufacturers who design their products on those principles are catering for human beings or robots...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  9. #89
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Posts: 126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Here's hoping, Kelvin!

    Another little tip - have you tried removing the little rubber washer fixed to the back of the bayonet fitting of the headshell? I've found that doing so gives better coupling to the armtube and results in improved detail retrieval and 'focus'.

    Marco.
    i haven't yet. i've tried removing it previously from the stock technics headshell and i agree that there was definitely an improvement in focus. let's hope it'll bring the same to the zupreme. the rubber washer feels stiffer on the zupreme compared to the one on the stock; i wonder how removing it will affect the sound.
    kelvin.

    .my salvation.
    kab technics sl-1200mkII/AT33PTG/achromat . philips dvd963sa (modded analogue stage) as cdp . pioneer tx-410 stereo tuner
    trichord dino phono preamp + dino ncpsu . astintrew at2000+ integrated amp
    alr-jordan note 3

  10. #90
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: Paris, France

    Posts: 790
    I'm Peter.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Did the Feickart gauge give correct overhang? This for me is what the Feickart does best, along with rapid setup. Checking many peoples' TTs I've been horrified to find the no one I checked had the correct overhang. This is not surprising as these guys had simply setup via 2 null point protractos. The chances of getting overhang correct by this method is remote. I'll shutup now as this this OT.
    Yes it does, but only for Bauerwald and Lofgrin. It's abeautiful piece of kit, really easy to use. Just no use for Technics SL1210 with a standard arm, IMO.
    Intel NUC/Chevron Audio NDF16 dac/Amptastic Mini-1/Audium Comp 5
    Mains Block: Custom-HiFi-Cables PowerBlack Distribution Block (with super conditioner).
    Connected with Reference Fidelity Components Super Neptunes and Speaker Cables.
    Powered by Custom-HiFi-Cables DC2 psus

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