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Thread: Original US model Shure SC35C

  1. #51
    Join Date: Jun 2009

    Location: Berkshire uk

    Posts: 1,744
    I'm Allthatwasisorwillbe.

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    I have to say,i absolutly love the shure so far.Listening to some J.B's or 'the godfather of soul' james brown has become fun and funky,the way this music should be.

    You cannot but help turn it up (not quite up to 75% though ) and bop around like a demented chicken.

    The combination of the shure into the JAN GE 5751's in the croft,sounds like a good combo in my limited experience.

    I think i will get the G800 up and running at some point,to see if i can hear the differences in 'Tone' and 'musicality' marco touched upon in his post.

    Im still interested in what a SAS stylus can bring to the table.I wonder if it can bring that extra 'tone' and 'musicality'.
    Darren

    KORUS CUSTOM SERVER
    TECHNICS 1200 MKII_JELCO 750D_SHURE SC35C (with NOS and NEO SAS styli)
    CAIMAN SEG + DORADO PSU
    CROFT MEGA MICRO
    PARADIGM REFERENCE ACTIVE/40'S
    PARADIGM SERVO 15 SUBWOOFER X 2


    ''The theory of relativity is a mass of error and deceptive ideas violently opposed to the teachings of great men of science of the past and even to common sense''

  2. #52
    Join Date: Jun 2009

    Location: Berkshire uk

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    I'm Allthatwasisorwillbe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Only if you think that there may be a sonic advantage. Is there anything lacking in the presentation at the moment, and if so, what?

    Marco.
    No not really,i suppose it's a case of suck it and see,but im happy with how it's sounding now,so probaly will leave it alone.
    Darren

    KORUS CUSTOM SERVER
    TECHNICS 1200 MKII_JELCO 750D_SHURE SC35C (with NOS and NEO SAS styli)
    CAIMAN SEG + DORADO PSU
    CROFT MEGA MICRO
    PARADIGM REFERENCE ACTIVE/40'S
    PARADIGM SERVO 15 SUBWOOFER X 2


    ''The theory of relativity is a mass of error and deceptive ideas violently opposed to the teachings of great men of science of the past and even to common sense''

  3. #53
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Eastern, US

    Posts: 2,027
    I'm afesteringvinylphile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    ...And no, azimuth isn't out - it's just the angle of the picture and the fact that the plastic stylus housing doesn't sit 100% straight inside the cartridge body ...
    There's a man who knows his audience!
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  4. #54
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 37,711
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    When I get a chance, I'll try one the NOS Shure styli in the cartridge you gave me and see whether the HUGE difference in performance is down to the stylus or the 'USA made' cartridge itself, or both

    Marco.
    I don't understand - were 'later' SC35s made for Shure on an OEM basis by another party?

    Does the body of your Evanston sample differ to that of the one I gave you?

    If when fitting your 'kosher' stylus into the second body makes little or no difference, would that imply the second body is genuine?

    Cheers
    Barry

  5. #55
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Guys,

    Just a quick update on the comparison I've done between both cartridges....After having lived with the Shure now for a few days, I've gotten a pretty good handle on its sonic and musical characteristics. First of all, having experimented at some length with VTF, the sweet spot in my system is definitely 3.5g, any more than that and you can definitely hear the sound start to thicken and become 'plummy' (the recommended 4.5g is simply ridiculous). So, Darren, if you're still using it at 3g, I'd up VTF to 3.5g, and see what you think

    The Shure also likes some mass, and after much experimentation, the optimum to my ears is 13g, which is purely headshell mass, excluding mounting hardware. Including a 13g headshell, take it as a given that this cartridge needs a high-mass arm, in order to perform optimally, such as the 'studio tonearms' (EMTs and such like) it would've been partnered with in radio stations. For that, look in the region of 15g, excluding the aforementioned high-mass headshell.

    With any less mass than this, the SC35C gets a little 'shouty' with highly modulated and/or closely-miked material, such as 'busy' pop music, female vocals and jazz instruments. For reference, it doesn't possess the 'air and space', delicacy or anything like the overall musical refinement, of my SPU, or any quality low-output MC cartridge I've heard, which is to be expected. The Shure, after all, has its limits!

    However, tracking at 3.5g, in a NOS Sansui headshell, with quality lead wires attached (I'm using VDH MCS-300 solid-core Matched Crystal Silver), on my Jelco SA-750 tonearm, the vintage Shure sails through, with aplomb, any genres of music you care to throw at it, although it is most certainly biased towards rock, pop and dance music, where it *really* shines and gives music an up-beat, 'boppy' and fun sound, full of vim & vigour. You can hear exactly why it was chosen as a broadcast cartridge in radio stations, playing mainly pop music, across the world. It does not in the least sound flat and rather rolled-off in the treble, like its modern counterpart.

    There is, however, one more tweak to come. At the moment I'm using it in a NOS Sansui headshell, with added mass. The Sansui is a quality headshell, but it's not the *absolute* best, and so when I get my Fidelity Research S5 back from Neil (Dalek DL), who's currently borrowing it, it'll be interesting to hear what that brings to the party. I'm expecting a soupçon more solidity and refinement.

    Substituting the Shure for the Goldring G800 is interesting....

    The first most obvious thing one notices is that the Shure is a better tracker, as the G800 (fitted with a previously unused NOS Goldring conical sylus), tracking at 2.6g, tends to slightly emphasise sibilance, which can be a problem in cartridges fitted with spherical-tipped styli. However, it's far from disastrous, and only really noticeable with 's' sounds on closely-miked material. With the Shure, that effect is all but absent, and it sails through 'difficult' material that the G800 sometimes struggles with.

    However, what also becomes obvious with prolonged listening is that the G800 has a nicer 'tone', making the Shure, in comparison, sound 'cooler' and a little more clinical. The bass of the Shure has more grip and extension, whereas with the G800, low frequencies are just a tad looser, but also have more 'analogue warmth', which suits jazz and classical music rather well.

    In comparison to the G800, the Shure can sound slightly ragged and a little too 'insistent'. The midrange of the G800 is also marginally more refined, giving vocals in particular a 'creamier', more mellifluous, quality. It is also less 'rushed' in its overall presentation. Where the Shure is wearing its 'party hat' all the time, infectiously injecting joie de vivre in everything it tracks, the G800 is a little more reserved and less 'showy', but nonetheless, never less than entertaining with it.

    In short, overall, the G800 has more musical finesse than the Shure, but how much of this effect is because it's currently fitted into a better quality headshell (My Audio Technica LT-12), is unknown. I'll know more when I get my FR S/5 back. The Shure is definitely the best choice for those who predominantly listen to rock, pop, and dance music, as its top-end 'sparkle', midrange alacrity and shpincter-tight, rhythmic, impactful and extended bass, make listening to 12" dance singles, for example, a huge grin-inducing experience. It's pretty much in that respect like no other cartridge I've heard, save something like a Denon DL-103R, through my modded Lentek MC head amp.

    However, both the original US version Shure SC35C and Goldring G800 represent superb cartridge bargains, if you can find them, particularly equipped with NOS styli. If so, and they are partnered correctly, then with either one you'll be guaranteed excellent sonic performance and musical satisfaction from the respective genres that both cartridges excel in, so start hunting on eBay now!!

    Marco.
    Fantastic review Marco - you ought to do more of this sort of thing; just leave the running of the Forum to your lieutenants!

    Any chance there might be a similar comparative review between your SPU and an EMT (both fitted with spherical tips)?

    Cheers
    Barry

  6. #56
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,501
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Barry,

    I don't understand - were 'later' SC35s made for Shure on an OEM basis by another party?
    I'm not sure, but what I can tell you is that the words 'Made in USA', printed on the cartridge body, above the output pins on the vintage original US model, are not present on the SC35C cartridge body you gave me.

    And given the huge disparity in audio performance between the two (both with the cartridges themselves and their respective styli), recent quality production standards at Shure have obviously lowered considerably, and so one wonders if them stopping printing 'Made in USA' on current SC35Cs is indicative of manufacturing no longer taking place in the US, and perhaps instead being located somewhere else, like China, in order to keep costs down?

    Does the body of your Evanston sample differ to that of the one I gave you?
    Only in terms of the lack of 'Made in USA' being printed on it. Otherwise, on the surface, they are identical.

    If when fitting your 'kosher' stylus into the second body makes little or no difference, would that imply the second body is genuine?
    No. When fitting the 'kosher' stylus into the second body it improves the sound compared to what it would have been with a modern Shure stylus fitted (the type with 'Shure' in black print written on it - an original stylus has 'Shure', written in white), but the sound is not as good as it is when both the stylus and body are original Evanston items, which indicates that not only is the stylus on current models of inferior quality, but perhaps the magnet assembly or coil windings inside the cartridge itself.

    In short, sonically, they are competely different beasts!

    I trust that this fully explains the situation

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  7. #57
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,501
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Fantastic review Marco - you ought to do more of this sort of thing; just leave the running of the Forum to your lieutenants!

    Any chance there might be a similar comparative review between your SPU and an EMT (both fitted with spherical tips)?
    Cheers, mate! One does one's best...

    As for the latter, quite possibly, but much depends on my available time. The SC35C vs. G800 review was completely spontaneous, and tripped off my laptop this morning, when I was in the mood, whilst having my breakfast!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  8. #58
    Join Date: Jun 2009

    Location: Berkshire uk

    Posts: 1,744
    I'm Allthatwasisorwillbe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hurry hurry, Mrs Murray - grab it while you can!!

    Marco.
    Collar turned up today(sorry dave ) and is now fitted,cheers marco.

    Nice bit of kit and now vta stays the same,across the whole record,adding a touch more seperation and a feeling of solidity to the soundstage,which is most welcome.
    Darren

    KORUS CUSTOM SERVER
    TECHNICS 1200 MKII_JELCO 750D_SHURE SC35C (with NOS and NEO SAS styli)
    CAIMAN SEG + DORADO PSU
    CROFT MEGA MICRO
    PARADIGM REFERENCE ACTIVE/40'S
    PARADIGM SERVO 15 SUBWOOFER X 2


    ''The theory of relativity is a mass of error and deceptive ideas violently opposed to the teachings of great men of science of the past and even to common sense''

  9. #59
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,540
    I'm David.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kininigin View Post
    Collar turned up today(sorry dave ) and is now fitted,cheers marco.


    I know Shure started making styli (at least) in Mexico, but if the bodies sound so different, there must be proper reasons WHY - such as different coil windings etc. This MAY have been intentional you know, in an attempt to flatten the dull balance, they may have taken the weight and power away to a degree in balance. the V15XMR gave more "audiophool weght" to the sound, but wasn't strictly "accurate" as the VMR and Ultra 500 possibly were. The HiFi fraternity preferred it though I believe, so they stuck with it. Whether the change to "XMR" corresponded to the move to Mexico, I don't know.

    Anyone wanting to know what Marco & co are going on about, try an M75-EJ, or 70-EJ, or 91E, which has a more secure stylus mounting IMO. They sound very similar I think, but offer better tracking on more modern cuts I feel, tracking at a more "normal" 1.8g or so.
    I can't go on and I can't go back, I don't feel so matter of fact,
    I tried and tried to make good sense, What's the good to try it all again?

  10. #60
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,501
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    This MAY have been intentional you know, in an attempt to flatten the dull balance, they may have taken the weight and power away to a degree in balance.
    There's definitely no lack of weight or power with the vintage SC35C; in fact it is rather prodigious in that respect, with low frequencies having extension and gravitas, when the music demands, and the top-end is as a sweet as a nut, but open and texturally detailed, too...

    The more I listen to this cartridge, with all sorts of different music, the more I love it. Today I spent hours listening to some 50s and 60s music, from classic musicals to Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Tom Jones, just to test it with different material from rock and pop. It sounded rich, sonorous and schmaltzy, and as addictive as a glass of vintage Sassicaia!

    Its musical presentation is utterly wonderful, capturing in particular the gorgeously rich tone of those awesome valve-influenced mid-50s Sinatra recordings on Capitol. The vintage SC35C is currently forming a symbiotic partnership with the valve MM phono stage in my Croft, especially with it having been recently fitted with a lovely sounding dusty pair of NOS 1945 Tung Sol 6SU7GTY radio broadcast tubes - sheer sonic bliss!

    The biggest compliment I can pay the Shure is that, at the moment, I'm in no hurry whatsoever to return to my SPU!!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

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