Original US model Shure SC35C

[kininigin]

If you haven't paid Marco for it by month-end, I'll probably have it for the Jelco I hope to get - one day......

Bloody hell,the vultures are circling

[Marco]

Hurry hurry, Mrs Murray - grab it while you can!!

Marco.

[Marco]

Guys,

Just a quick update on the comparison I've done between both cartridges....After having lived with the Shure now for a few days, I've gotten a pretty good handle on its sonic and musical characteristics. First of all, having experimented at some length with VTF, the sweet spot in my system is definitely 3.5g, any more than that and you can definitely hear the sound start to thicken and become 'plummy' (the recommended 4.5g is simply ridiculous). So, Darren, if you're still using it at 3g, I'd up VTF to 3.5g, and see what you think

The Shure also likes some mass, and after much experimentation, the optimum to my ears is 13g, which is purely headshell mass, excluding mounting hardware. Including a 13g headshell, take it as a given that this cartridge needs a high-mass arm, in order to perform optimally, such as the 'studio tonearms' (EMTs and such like) it would've been partnered with in radio stations. For that, look in the region of 15g, excluding the aforementioned high-mass headshell.

With any less mass than this, the SC35C gets a little 'shouty' with highly modulated and/or closely-miked material, such as 'busy' pop music, female vocals and jazz instruments. For reference, it doesn't possess the 'air and space', delicacy or anything like the overall musical refinement of my SPU, or any quality low-output MC cartridge I've heard, which is to be expected. The Shure, after all, has its limits!

However, tracking at 3.5g, in a NOS Sansui headshell, with quality lead wires attached (I'm using VDH MCS-300 solid-core Matched Crystal Silver), on my Jelco SA-750 tonearm, the vintage Shure sails through, with aplomb, any genres of music you care to throw at it, although it is most certainly biased towards rock, pop and dance music, where it *really* shines and gives music an up-beat, 'boppy' and fun sound, full of vim & vigour. You can hear exactly why it was chosen as a broadcast cartridge in radio stations, playing mainly pop music, across the world. It does not in the least sound flat and rather rolled-off in the treble, like its modern counterpart.

There is, however, one more tweak to come. At the moment I'm using it in a NOS Sansui headshell, with added mass. The Sansui is a quality headshell, but it's not the *absolute* best, and so when I get my Fidelity Research S5 back from Neil (Dalek DL), who's currently borrowing it, it'll be interesting to hear what that brings to the party. I'm expecting a soupçon more solidity and refinement.

Substituting the Shure for the Goldring G800 is interesting....

The first most obvious thing one notices is that the Shure is a better tracker, as the G800 (fitted with a previously unused NOS Goldring conical sylus), tracking at 2.6g, tends to slightly emphasise sibilance, which can be a problem in cartridges fitted with spherical-tipped styli. However, it's far from disastrous, and only really noticeable with 's' sounds on closely-miked material. With the Shure, that effect is all but absent, and it sails through 'difficult' material that the G800 sometimes struggles with.

However, what also becomes obvious with prolonged listening is that the G800 has a nicer 'tone', making the Shure, in comparison, sound 'cooler' and a little more clinical. The bass of the Shure has more grip and extension, whereas with the G800, low frequencies are just a tad looser, but also have more 'analogue warmth', which suits jazz and classical music rather well.

In comparison to the G800, the Shure can sound slightly ragged and a little too 'insistent'. The midrange of the G800 is also marginally more refined, giving vocals in particular a 'creamier', more mellifluous, quality. It is also less 'rushed' in its overall presentation. Where the Shure is wearing its 'party hat' all the time, infectiously injecting joie de vivre in everything it tracks, the G800 is a little more reserved and less 'showy', but nonetheless, never less than entertaining with it.

In short, overall, the G800 has more musical finesse than the Shure, but how much of this effect is because it's currently fitted into a better quality headshell (My Audio Technica LT-12), is unknown. I'll know more when I get my FR S/5 back. The Shure is definitely the best choice for those who predominantly listen to rock, pop, and dance music, as its top-end 'sparkle', midrange alacrity and shpincter-tight, rhythmic, impactful and extended bass, make listening to 12" dance singles, for example, a huge grin-inducing experience. It's pretty much in that respect like no other cartridge I've heard, save something like a Denon DL-103R, through my modded Lentek MC head amp.

However, both the original US version Shure SC35C and Goldring G800 represent superb cartridge bargains, if you can find them, particularly equipped with NOS styli. If so, and they are partnered correctly, then with either one you'll be guaranteed excellent sonic performance and musical satisfaction from the respective genres that both cartridges excel in, so start hunting on eBay now!!

Marco.

[DSJR]

That darned g800 won't let go will it? I honestly say that although the V15 IV in the old Techie 1500 is better, the G800 as you say, does have a rather captivating midband once the arm mass is optimised, and the bass is nothing like as bad as I remember it first time round, although reducing the tracking weight to around 2.25g - where I remember having it at the time (in 1972 FFS ), causes all sorts of bass distortion...

Marco, PLEASE can I suggest you get yourself an AT110E with some spare pocket money, to use as a current reference that real world cartridge fans can refer to. This one seems smooth enough, is very arm friendly and has no nasties - I was shocked to see that the pleasant "sparkle" I like in the AT120E is apparently a 6db peak at 10KHz - cough - enough to upset many phono stages with suspect overload margins (the latest HFN or Choice has a cartridge test - these mags are all the same to me ).

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

That darned g800 won't let go will it?

It's very good, overall, but both cartridges excel in different ways with different material. I need to listen to the Shure in my FR headshell, before my findings become conclusive, to see which one I prefer between the two, or indeed if I just like both in different ways.

I honestly say that although the V15 IV in the old Techie 1500 is better, the G800 as you say, does have a rather captivating midband once the arm mass is optimised, and the bass is nothing like as bad as I remember it first time round, although reducing the tracking weight to around 2.25g - where I remember having it at the time (in 1972 FFS ), causes all sorts of bass distortion...

I've not heard a V15 IV, only the Mark III, which I liked, but don't remember it having the captivating mid-band of the G800, which is its most alluring trait, and something which I value highly in the sonic presentation of cartridges. The SPU also shares this quality, as does the M3D, and indeed take it to an even higher musical level.

Like you, I've found the sweet-spot for VTF on the G800 to be around 2.6g, where bass is tight and tuneful, and everything upstream seems to click into focus.

Marco, PLEASE can I suggest you get yourself an AT110E with some spare pocket money, to use as a current reference that real world cartridge fans can refer to.

That's an excellent idea. I might well do that - it would be useful as a modern reference!

Marco.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

What is the comparison like with the M3D.

[Marco]

It's a bit more hi-fi sounding, Richard. The SC35C doesn't quite have the musical qualities or 'vintage tone' you and I value in the M3D and SPU. However, it tracks much better than the M3D, and so it works more effectively with a wider variety of music.

I can go into a little more detail in those respects if you wish.

However, if you feel like adding another vintage cartridge to your collection, I think you'd prefer the G800

Marco.

[Marco]

A couple of (not very good) pics of the Shure in my NOS 1970s Sansui headshell:





Note the Blu-Tak, poking through the back of the headshell, to increase mass and dampen resonances - looks shite but works a treat!





And no, azimuth isn't out - it's just the angle of the picture and the fact that the plastic stylus housing doesn't sit 100% straight inside the cartridge body

Marco.

[kininigin]

Guys,

Just a quick update on the comparison I've done between both cartridges....After having lived with the Shure now for a few days, I've gotten a pretty good handle on its sonic and musical characteristics. First of all, having experimented at some length with VTF, the sweet spot in my system is definitely 3.5g, any more than that and you can definitely hear the sound start to thicken and become 'plummy' (the recommended 4.5g is simply ridiculous). So, Darren, if you're still using it at 3g, I'd up VTF to 3.5g, and see what you think

Now the shure has had a few days to run-in,im finding it easier to hear changes in vtf.Im running it at 3.3g at the moment but will see what 3.5g brings to the party.

Guys,
The Shure also likes some mass, and after much experimentation, the optimum to my ears is 13g, which is purely headshell mass, excluding mounting hardware.

Do you think,it would be of benifit to add an extra gram or two to my headshell?

Im sure i can find some blu tak

[Marco]

Only if you think that there may be a sonic advantage. Is there anything lacking in the presentation at the moment, and if so, what?

Marco.