Garrard 401 Vs Technics 1210

[Mike]

I've hankered after a 401 for quite some time and having heard Marco's own 1210 I'm seriously interested in the opinions of owners of either turntable.

I'm particularly interested in hearing from anyone who owns, or has owned, both!

Cheers...

[John]

I think either will get you there I do not know the 1210 but the 401 on slate; well that can be pretty special. By the sounds from what Marco is saying it will go down to if you want a really accurate sound or something that throws music at you, but like you interested in people who have experience with both TT

[Peter Stockwell]

Shian,

Are you talking to me ?

I still have my Garrard; it's a work of art. But In the end I preferred the SL1210.

But, one of these days I've got to bring the 401 back out and do some real side by side comparisons. Many have suggested that Martin Bastin's favoured approach to reducing motor rumble, dropping the voltage, also reduces the torque too much. I need to try both with the 401 "full bore" again.

cheers

[Primalsea]

I'm unfamiliar with the Technics but I know from experience that 401's are heavily dependant not only on the plinth but what you sit them on. The platter mat also makes quite a difference as well.

As there is no standard plinth for 401's it likely that every one you hear will be different.

When comparing decks like these its always an idea to hear several variations.

[Primalsea]

Motor rumble is a real problem in theory on the 401's. If set up properly it's not a problem.
You have 2 main issues with 401's:

They must be clean and in full working order with good rubber on the idler wheel. Get you toothbrush, pipe cleaners and WD40 out and clean until no more dirt comes off the mechanism.

They have to be directly coupled to a heavy plinth.

[Mike]

Are you talking to me ?

Anyone and everyone!

Thanks for the reply Peter, I'd forgotten about you owning both TBH.

What would you say were the strengths/weaknesses of both decks?

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

Paul's absolutely right about Garrards and plinths - the same also applies to SP10s. I've heard Garrards and SP10s in various plinths, and also am intimately familiar with my modified 1210.

In general Garrards tend to have a fuller and deeper bass than any of the Technics decks when used in the plinths I've heard (slate or wood), which has the effect of giving a warmer 'tone' to the overall sound and a slightly more 'romantic' presentation.

I'm unsure though which form of bass is the more accurate. Of course much will depend on choice of arm or cartridge. It's very easy, IME, to get an overblown sound with a Garrard if the arm and cartridge are similarly bass-heavy. Also the top end of Garrards in my experience is a little less explicit and not as revealing as that on the Technics decks, all things elsewhere being equal.

Both Technics decks tend to have a tighter, 'harder' bass and are slightly more forward sounding through the midrange and top end. I would also say that there were more speed accurate, which in turn has a knock-on effect on pitch accuracy and timing, and therefore crucially on musical presentation. The Technics deck's overall presentation is a little more 'master tape' like and less 'cuddly' sounding, if you will.

Both the Garrard and the Technics decks are however superb examples of the turntable art and suitably mounted and set-up a world apart from any low-mass belt driven T/T.

A good person to ask about this is Peter (User34) as he is both intimately familiar with the Garrard and KAB1210. Other person to ask would be Guy Sergeant, whom I believe has extensive experience of Garrards and of course the SP10.

I hope this helps

Marco.

[Peter Stockwell]

What would you say were the strengths/weaknesses of both decks?

Mike,

The Garrard sounds so organically whole, it's really seductive. The SL1210, with the KAB PSU, just stops and starts on a dime, musically speaking that is. It's very clear and clean. In a nutshell it's CD clarity with LP richness.

I found with my Bastined 401, which also had the Slatedeck bearing mod, was unlistenable with off centre records. Now this could be due to the low voltage approach favoured by Martin Bastin. The technics is much less bothered, if that makes any sense, and LPs I had rejected are now back in rotation!

If I had the space I had have them both up abd running but I had to choose. The teccie is a joy, functionally, to use. It's arguable that it has no soul compared with a Garrard, but it really get's the job done!

cheers

[Clive]

The low voltage approach for Garrards is garbage. I have a variac, I tried all sorts with the variac on my 301, full on 240V easily sounds best. If there is noise from the 50 year old TT that troubles then it should be tracked down and fixed. Lowering the voltage...you might as well run your car with one spark plug disconnected.

I find that Slate is way better than a CLD plinth and running with a parallel tracker I find the whole package very satisfying but not soporific. I think Marco likes quite a detailed and active sound, something you "have" to listen, profuse apologies if I'm mis-representing your preferences Marco. The differences between 1210 and 401/301, though less extreme, are a bit like OTL and SE valve amps. Which is "right" is immaterial, which you prefer is your choice.

[John]

Hi Mike
I think the only way you going to settle this for yourself is to hear the 401 on a slate amd then go for the one that you like the most.
If I could go back in time I would go out of my way to hear a mod 1210 but still very happy with the choices I made