Vantage Audio Technics SL-1210 PCB upgrade & PSU

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Because in that case, it is an improvement to the sound of your system, and NOT an improvement to the design of the equipment in question - in this case, the SL1200.

That said, it is still perfectly valid in the personal context. The point I raised to Marco was that the suggested improvement to the design of the SL1200 cannot be confirmed without measuring it.

And I put to you that it is impossible to measure it accurately, or more to the point correctly for us, as you cannot measure music or your perception of it.

IOM it is fatuous to say that test tones or test records tell you anything about the reproduction of music, they tell you about the reproduction of test tones.

There is nothing essential that any test equipment tells you that you ears cannot tell you, but their are masses of things your ears can tell you that test gear cannot. Also because the test gear is not set up in sympathy with human perception it often tells you differences that are completely (such as THD down to 3 zeros) unimportant because you can't hear it, but doesn't tell you other things that to the ears are musically just plain gross.

[worrasf]

Because in that case, it is an improvement to the sound of your system, and NOT an improvement to the design of the equipment in question - in this case, the SL1200.

I've been dying to use this smilie

Seriously chaps - my post has spawned a thread that now seems to have degenerated into (sorry philosophical debate) about what we want from our systems which seems to have polarised into those of us who listen to music and the kit is just a means to make this as near to the live performance as possible in a domestic situation and those who listen to the kit and buy music to demonstrate how good their latest bit of kit is. Not a criticism of course - just a personal observation

Anyway, for what it's worth the VA upgraded PCB and PSU has definitely enhanced my enjoyment of the music I have spent my hard earned dollar on.

Steve

[John]

I find it strange people don't trust their own ears The trouble with needle drops is that its music I do not know so I never boither with them and for me a test disc is just that a test disc
All my system has been built by using my ears I have never used a test disc.
The last time Howard came round he said it was one of the best systems he has heard in this country so I guess I must be doing something right.
I think measurements have thier place (and can see this in design around maintaining consitency of product etc) I am not against them but utlimatly I do not really care about how something is measured I care about how it sounds espically when I have to live with it in the context of my own system
Sorry Steve just seen your above post

[Beobloke]

I've been dying to use this smilie

Seriously chaps - my post has spawned a thread that now seems to have degenerated into

You're right, Steve and my apologies. I have plenty more to say on the (off!) topic but I shall refrain from doing so here!

[Marco]

Hi Guy,

No you would not have done, playing them back on your home system. But there were a few posters here whose subjective opinion was that they were good needledrops. I did find that a bit puzzling.

I didn't, although I know exactly where you're coming from.

However, the fact that the levels were too high doesn't render the recordings *totally* broken. I guess that some people (including me) can listen through that and hear that there's a bloody good turntable (and partnering system) behind them, which I suppose is where the positive comments were coming from, particularly with the SRV track, which wasn't as saturated as the others

All that needs doing is the recording levels lowered, and the needle-drops will sound fab - not too difficult a job!

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Adam,

Because in that case, it is an improvement to the sound of your system, and NOT an improvement to the design of the equipment in question - in this case, the SL1200.

How can you possibly say for sure? BOTH could in fact be the case!

The point I raised to Marco was that the suggested improvement to the design of the SL1200 cannot be confirmed without measuring it.

Yes, but not everything we can genuinely hear with audio can currently be measured. And certainly, a poxy 'test disc' (with limited functionality) is not likely to act as a conclusive arbiter, anytime soon, for ALL that needs to be assessed sonically on a turntable, or the efficacy of its power supply.

The day that measurements tell the FULL story of how the human ears and brain process recorded music, via a hi-fi system, is the day I will treat what a 'test disc' tells me as conclusive!

I find it strange people don't trust their own ears The trouble with needle drops is that its music I do not know so I never boither with them and for me a test disc is just that a test disc
All my system has been built by using my ears I have never used a test disc.

Me neither, John, and none of my friends who've been into hi-fi and music for the same length of time as me, have either. I find it distinctly weird that some people need to test the buggery out of everything before they'll believe that it exists

The only man-made measurement apparatus I'll likely ever use with my hi-fi system is a stylus pressure gauge and an alignment protractor - they're all I need!!

Anyway, folks, let's get back on-topic now, as this is supposed to be Steve's thread about his Vantage Audio upgrades - cheers!

Marco.

[colinB]

I would like to see scope tests on a psu just to see how it eliminates the ripple on the output voltage in comparison to the old one. It would be interesting. But if a new psu is an improvement on the old one the simple test is the noise floor will drop and it will become more pleasant to listen to.

[chris@panteg]

Guys , i asked Richard tonight about providing test results for his bearing and psu , and he would be happy to do so ! In fact its intregal to his approach , it was a fascinating and enjoyable evening listening to a very nice SL10 , my good friend John came round and its got him hooked all over again , as a Voyd man he was very impressed with both my QL1 and Richard's hot rodded SL10 .

[Big Vern]

Yes, but not everything we can genuinely hear with audio can currently be measured. And certainly, a poxy 'test disc' (with limited functionality) is not likely to act as a conclusive arbiter, anytime soon, for ALL that needs to be assessed sonically on a turntable, or the efficacy of its power supply.

The day that measurements tell the FULL story of how the human ears and brain process recorded music, via a hi-fi system, is the day I will treat what a 'test disc' tells me as conclusive!

Me neither, John, and none of my friends who've been into hi-fi and music for the same length of time as me, have either. I find it distinctly weird that some people need to test the buggery out of everything before they'll believe that it exists

The only man-made measurement apparatus I'll likely ever use with my hi-fi system is a stylus pressure gauge and an alignment protractor - they're all I need!!


Marco.

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)

Sorry, couldn't resist...but it does seem to fit with the above!

Cheers,

[chris@panteg]

Its time to update this thread i feel , i now have no psu for my 1210 ! The Timestep has been sold and is in the post , going to be without my 1210 for probably a couple of months , the money from the TS has actually gone towards a new kitchen (must keep the wifey happy) but no big deal i can wait , i just have to decide on what configuration of psu as Richard has sent me a large number of options ? Perhaps Stephen can offer some more thoughts on why he went for the main board mods and how he feels its made a difference .

I've roped in the SL-Q21 , its ok , and i have the lovely little QL1 downstairs, performing very nicely.