Why do you need a speaker crossover - discuss

[Marco]

Lol - no worries. But if Andrew's only purpose of making that remark was to wind Richard up (yet again), then I'll have finally lost my patience.

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Quite a few on DIYaudio have removed the dust cap and replaced it with a phase plug. It is said this reduces the beaming and improves them no end.

Chris/Paul,
Yes, I have put phase plugs in mine and it was indeed a good improvement. Just seems to smooth out and extend the top.end. I feel no need for a tweeter. I used Planet10 plugs.

Paul,
Regarding the use of two bass drivers, I did not design these baffles, but as I understand it, the use of the Eminence in an OB causes a -6db drop in level at bass frequencies. Using two drivers redresses this imbalance.

[John]

Paul Ben Harper is not related to Roy
His music is a mixiture of rock soul blues folk and reggae He has a voice is nearly as good as Jeff Buckley and a good guitar player too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Harper

[MartinT]

I cannot photo the lines this week as we are re-decorating the lounge and making it more music friendly, however I have some photos of the line arrays I took at the old Cumbrian address that are on Photobucket at the following links :-

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/w...Picture036.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/w...Picture039.jpg

and the power amp :-

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/w...lhynes/SE1.jpg

Paul, the line arrays look very interesting and appeal to my sense of right-ness. However, it's the power amp that has me drawing breath in amazement. What a fantastically simple and elegant circuit. Clearly it's going to be very power supply dependent, but of course that is your game. What kind of output do you get from one of these and is the output impedance low enough?

[Ali Tait]

Those speakers look great Paul. Could you provide more info please? PM would be fine if you'd rather keep it more private.

[StanleyB]

How accurate is speaker reproduction anyhow?

[MartinT]

How accurate is speaker reproduction anyhow?

It depends on your reference. If you like classical or acoustic music, it's easy to compare. Anything electronic (jazz, rock etc.) and you're into a whole world of preferences and lack of baseline.

[anthonyTD]

Hi All,
ok, lets take this debate a little further and discuss what we are actualy doing when we use either cross-overs [be it mechanical or passive/electrical]
What are the goals we wish to acheive, and what affect might this have on the performance of the speaker/driver and cabinet as a whole ?
Anthony,TD...

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Well, Richard, to be blunt (and you know I mean no offence), you do tend to rattle on sometimes about the 'same old, same old', in terms of your particular 'pet hates', often I think without even being aware you are doing it.....

Therefore, I'd treat Alex's earlier gentle dig (his first post on the matter) as a polite reminder of that

I don't think anyone here is "deaf". Like I said before, out with of personal tastes, context is the key. Perhaps if you'd heard some of the BBC loudspeaker designs in a different context, with different equipment, results would've been different? It's not an impossibility.

Therefore, I think it would be an idea to keep that thought in your head, rather than simply write off ALL BBC-style loudspeakers as crap, because to do so would simply be absolutist and smack of simplistic thinking, and IMO, you have a much more inquisitive mind than that!

Marco.

I don't think I am doing any different to anyone else, expressing preferences and opinion. I listened to *all* the new speakers that appeared on the market during the early 70's when the BBC designs appeared, up to 1977 and they were all bland, undynamic and one trick ponies. Do you want me to lie to you to protect the sensitivities of some of your members! And ***IMO***!!! this was largely caused by over complex crossovers. After 1977 I was not listening on a regular basis apart from at shows or shops and what I heard just re-enforced my opinion. It was such a breath of fresh air by the mid 80's to walk into Bespoke Audio in Stockport and listen to some good US style speakers in the Allisons, to get away from either Linn speakers in some shops or BBC types in other shops. I was very much in the minority, but I probably always have and always will be.

I do not have absolutism or simplistic thinking, I have experience and opinion, nothing more. It is not simplistic when I worked with the design and production team at AR UK, nor was it simplistic to know how those crossovers worked, how they influenced the sound and also designed for both personal use (in the early days), and for commercial use.

How can you discuss crossovers and the influence they have without talking about the two expremes 1/ BBC design 2/ Crossoverless design, and most of the discussion has been about *OTHER* peoples crossoverless designs.

I do not accept you argument - full stop! but I respect you opinion, it is mine that is not being respected. If I feel I am locked in a room and gagged with tabboo subjects all around me and I am not allowed to talk about them because I step on a few toes, then what is the point of posting. I may step on a few toes (I always have) but I don't go around stamping on some ones feet as is my fate from these people. Mine are due to my discussion and opinion *on topic* theirs are deliberate and personal attacks.

[Ali Tait]

My take on it is it's a good idea to have a wide range driver to cover top and mid and mid bass perhaps, and use woofers to fill in the bottom end. This avoids crossing over where the ear is most sensitive, which a lot of commercial boxes do. Also, to my ears a full or wide range driver just sounds more real and coherent.

Electrostatics have particular strengths in soundstaging, imaging and transient response for similar reasons, given that they are ostensibly a full range single driver with extremely light mass. Like anything else they are not perfect, but what they do well they do better than anything else.