New acrylic platter for the SL-1200/1210

[Mike_New]

Hi DSJR,

May I politely suggest to owners of the MN bearing who wish to try this acrylic based platter that the MN bearing introduces some drag not evident in the stock bearing? The MN bearing was designed for heavier platters such as the one that goes with it and may not work so well with a lightweight affair, which will also give totally different loading to the motor electronics I suspect, although it could be argued that when using the stock platter improved things, this won't matter. These things alone alone may be audible..

I do not think you are really in tune with what historically has been happening.....

When I designed my High Precision Bearing I did so with the continuing use of the OEM platter in mind. People then asked me to design a new heavier high quality platter, as a component of the phased upgrade path; which I then proceeded with.

My bearing does not have drag!

Rather it is a high precision honed fit to the outer bearing which is why any mechanically un-informed persons would maybe think of it as drag. The rotation is as smooth as silk, but firm with absolutely no looseness. Which is what is required of a high quality bearing in the context of an audio application. (Think also the bearings in high quality Tape Decks)

The Stock Bearing of the SL1200 has no 'drag' as DSJR refers to it, simply because it is a low cost component built to a price

Unfortunately high precision engineering is labour intensive and involves high precision machine tools and setup times.
For instance the shafts for my bearings are machined on a $200,000 Swiss NC lathe before finish grinding and Gas Nitriding.

The bearing housings (which I machine) are then precision honed to fit the shafts.
It is this overall process that does cost money, and that all other wouldbe vendors of bearings have studiously avoided.
Rather they have all resorted to re-engineering a new shaft and load device into a very weak die cast housing.

Set up times and machine time must be computed into the pricing equations as fixed costs to be amortised over the size of the production run.
That is why I produce my bearings in batch's of 25. I could indeed 'forward- order' 100 shafts but the up-front money would be to high for my liking.

The bearing was never ever designed 'specifically' for heavier platters as DSJR suggests!!

The bearing will work just as well on an acrylic platter as any other
(Assuming that is, that the platter has been machined correctly so as to position the vital components into their correct running location axially)

DSJR suggests that using the stock platter (with my bearing) could improve things!! Does he not know that at this point in time there are over 80 happy users of my bearings around the the world. Not including forward orders from Spain, Portugal, Lithuania, and of course many in the US and Asia.

[Mike_New]

Hi Marco,

Gee thanks for that posting, it was from the bottom of his heart!!!

[WOStantonCS100]

Hi DSJR,


I do not think you are really in tune with what historically has been happening!!!!

When I designed my High Precision Bearing I did so with the continuing use of the OEM platter in mind. People then asked me to design a new heavier high quality platter, as a component of the phased upgrade path; which I then proceeded with.

My bearing does not have drag!

Rather it is a high precision honed fit to the outer bearing which is why any mechanically un-informed persons would maybe think of it as drag. The rotation is as smooth as silk, but firm with absolutely no looseness. Which is what is required of a high quality bearing in the context of an audio application. (Think also the bearings in high quality Tape Decks)

The Stock Bearing of the SL1200 has no 'drag' as DSJR refers to it, simply because it is a low cost component built to a price

Unfortunately high precision engineering is labour intensive and involves high precision machine tools and setup times.
For instance the shafts for my bearings are machined on a $200,000 Swiss NC lathe before finish grinding and Gas Nitriding.

The bearing housings (which I machine) are then precision honed to fit the shafts.
It is this overall process that does cost money, and that all other wouldbe vendors of bearings have studiously avoided.
Rather they have all resorted to re-engineering a new shaft and load device into a very weak die cast housing.

Set up times and machine time must be computed into the pricing equations as fixed costs to be amortised over the size of the production run.
That is why I produce my bearings in batch's of 25. I could indeed 'forward- order' 100 shafts but the up-front money would be to high for my liking.

The bearing was never ever designed 'specifically' for heavier platters as DSJR suggests!!

The bearing will work just as well on an acrylic platter as any other
(Assuming that is, that the platter has been machined correctly so as to position the vital components into their correct running location axially)

DSJR suggests that using the stock platter (with my bearing) could improve things!! Does he not know that at this point in time there are over 80 happy users of my bearings around the the world. Not including forward orders from Spain, Portugal, Lithuania, and of course many in the US and Asia.

Thanks for quickly addressing that Mike. When I read that post something really did not seem right about that. I was initially a bit concerned. But, why would something made to such a high tolerance, that bears up exceedingly well under heavy load, not work even better under a lighter load??? From what I understand of the design of your bearing, it was not designed to be dependent upon the weight of the platter. "Making" or even suggesting that the bearing will only work with your platter (and your PSU, and any other product you make or offer)... well let's just leave that kind of drivel thinking and sales pitch to DC.

[Mike_New]

Hi Biff,
Yes this will always be a problem in any online forum such as this, and in particular one in which the subject matter is Audio. It can lend itself to so much totally uniformed comment.
The problem is that some people just like to posture their opinions and thoughts irregardless of the total lack of any pre study or investigation of the subject matter.

[The Grand Wazoo]

With the greatest of respect, Mike, if uninformed personal opinions were banned from AoS, it wouldn't be much of a discussion forum.

[Marco]

Yep, Chris is right.

I know where you're coming from, Mike, but you have to allow people to express their opinion, be it informed or uninformed, and if factually incorrect in some way, then that's the opportunity for those who are informed to correct the errors

Just one point designed to help... You may wish to consider not using so many question and exclamation marks (and emboldened text) in your responses, as it makes it look like you're shouting and/or being aggressive, when I know you're not, and instead simply wish to stress a particular point. I'd use them more sparingly, thus maximising their effect better where it really matters. Just a thought, mate

I'll comment on the other recent posts later after breakfast.

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Adam,

No, but the problem is:
A lot of people from all over the world (which is good for AoS) do look to this forum for guidance and advice. Discussion is all very well; but let's have informed discussion.
The post that promped this was no where near informed, as I tried nicely to explain.

[Marco]

Who's Adam?



Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

When Dave wrote this:

The MN bearing was designed for heavier platters such as the one that goes with it and may not work so well with a lightweight affair, which will also give totally different loading to the motor electronics I suspect, although it could be argued that when using the stock platter improved things, this won't matter.

I think what he was trying to say, in a somewhat confused way, was that the acrylic platter would likely improve on the stock platter under any conditions. I don't think he was saying that the stock platter would better yours in any way.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure Dave will clarify later

Also, I think he was hinting at what I wrote earlier:

In fact, in that respect, whilst I'm obviously keen to hear what the acrylic platter sounds like on my own T/T, I'm beginning to wonder just how relevant my findings will be, based on the fact that my T/T has been judiciously modified with a specific sonic goal in mind, and as such contains products complimentary to achieving that goal, which may not harmonise with 'alien' items introduced into the chain, intended to have a different effect.

Yes, no doubt your bearing will work just as well on an acrylic platter as any other, but it could be argued that if the acrylic platter has been designed as part of a system, say to be used in conjunction with existing Timestep products, such as their bearing and PSUs (and no doubt part of Mr Cawley's 'Evo' solution for the SL-1200, as an alternative to the stock platter with Oyaide mat and record weight), then using the platter on an 'alien' T/T, such as mine, may not produce the intended sonic synergy.

Do you see my point (and I think Dave's)?

*However*, that appears not to be the case, as Arthur has already said that he designed the acrylic platter whilst using a STOCK SL-1200, therefore any notion of his platter achieving synergy with existing Timestep products (or the 'Evo') is not necessarily going to be the case...

Since Arthur decided to supply Dave C with the platter, which will effectively be sold as a Sound Hi-fi product, what should've happened, IMO, is that it should've been designed from the ground up with the products Dave C intended to sell it with as a 'complete system', i.e. a Timestep bearing and PSU (and SME 309, or whatever) otherwise all that's happening is an acrylic platter, optimised for use with a stock Techy, is being bolted onto another solution which it may not optimise as effectively.

That's how I see it, and if there's something I'm missing, then perhaps Arthur would clarify?

Marco.

[MartinT]

My bearing does not have drag!

Indeed not. A simple test of spinning the platter with the power off shows that it is a very well engineered bearing with small frictional losses.