New acrylic platter for the SL-1200/1210

[MCRU]

Marco,
On the subject of PSU's mentioned in your post above, by the time you have Arthur's platter I will make sure you also have my new PSU for the Technics so you can do some serious auditioning of various combinations.

It even has kimber cable attached.

[Mike_New]

Hi Arthur,

There are also other items currently in experimental stage which further extends our overall test procedure but these I can't divulge.

People have commented that it is "only an acrylic platter". Truth be told, this "simple" platter is proving a veritable project in its own right and here's why:
A case in point is the critical central sensor (which comes with the platter). Production of this one apparently straightforward looking component alone comprises some 13 parts and two jigs. Then there is the testing and measuring parameters of the shield. All necessary iterations in getting it to work invisibly.

It is for all these reasons that although word is out and prototypes have had their initial airing, we are not rushing them out of the door and instead still quoting some 8-10 weeks to production release.

At the end of the day, if, as Marco says, the proof is in the listening and you do end up liking it, there has to be a reason. I'd like to think that all these hours of physics and development played some little part, as they have with other products I have had a hand in creating.

Cheers.

Arthur

With all due respects, I worked out the parameters for the "central critical position sensor" (as you put it) nearly two years ago!! And have been making them for my platters ever since. You really only require 8 laminations and a retaining frame.

What is taking you so long? Or are you having other problems that are not as easy as they first looked.....?

[MCRU]

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

I will comment more later on the recent posts, but I just wanted to address this:

Finally a quote from the Time Step web site from the man himself:

“I have used several German turntables and realised that nothing beats a solid aluminium platter for ultimate sound quality and stability. But an Acoustic Solid Royal turntable costs nearly £8K without an arm and it still doesn't have the pitch stability of a direct drive.”

http://www.time-step.net/showthread....L-1210-Platter

So, who are we kidding???

Lol - I wonder if Dave C had forgotten he'd written that? Not only the bit you've quoted, but the whole lot is a written endorsement of YOUR platter design and nothing to do with the acrylic one, designed by Arthur, he's currently championing!

I suspect that some frantic editing and/or deletion of that thread will be forthcoming, sooner rather than later...

Amusing though, that you should highlight it for our attention now. I've saved it for reference - nice one!

Laters,
Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Marco,
So have I!!

[Marco]

Hi Ernest,

This thread has been a truly interesting read and am thankful to both Mike and Arthur for their contributions explaining the magnetic flux from the Techie motor.

Thanks for your support. AoS is the true home of the dedicated Techy enthusiast, and the only place on the 'net where comprehensive, up-to-date and commercially unbiased information exists on modifying the SL-1200.

Therefore, this thread (and others on here) acts as an accurate resource of information for all those who are interested in modifying the SL-1200/1210 to become a truly world-class turntable, and wish to form their own opinion on how to do so, based on the information presented by those whose opinions matter most: the designers of the products themselves, and crucially, the serious enthusisasts who have direct experience of using the products, where other sites with similar intentions, but commerical interests to protect, flatter to deceive.....

David,

On the subject of PSU's mentioned in your post above, by the time you have Arthur's platter I will make sure you also have my new PSU for the Technics so you can do some serious auditioning of various combinations.

Nice one. I'll be interesting popping that one into the mix!

And we've still got Anthony TD's multiple regulated PSU design for the Techy to come, which I can tell you is going to be something else....

Fun times are ahead, folks!

Right, must run off and do a few things - more later.

Marco.

[DSJR]

May I politely suggest to owners of the MN bearing who wish to try this acrylic based platter that the MN bearing introduces some drag not evident in the stock bearing? The MN bearing was designed for heavier platters such as the one that goes with it and may not work so well with a lightweight affair, which will also give totally different loading to the motor electronics I suspect, although it could be argued that when using the stock platter improved things, this won't matter. These things alone alone may be audible..

[Marco]

Good point, Dave! Ok, must run.....

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Arthur,

Ah. You do like your cans of worms. Well, Marco, from what you have said regarding the importance of the various offerings, it is important to us that what we have is as universal as possible to the majority of readers.

So for simplicity (and consistency) we most often use a standard Techy. Little point talking about something that the vast majority of people do not have (at this stage) and so cannot relate to.

I like cans of worms? Lol - no, not really. I just like to get everything out into the open, and discussed, which is relevant to all those interested in the subject. We don't hide behind shrouds of mystery here, like some others I could mention

So all your testing with the acrylic platter has been carried out with a stock Techy? Interesting......... I presumed that because you were working with 'wonder-boy' from Dartmouth, you'd have used a Timestep bearing and PSU.

Regarding the bit I've highlighted in bold, that's fair enough, but why should those you refer to consider upgrading the platter before, say, the PSU? Novices are unlikely to grasp the importance of a platter upgrade, especially when it's going to cost £600.

And for others, upgrading the platter first would be a rather odd course of action, would it not, considering that the stock PSU is one of the biggest limiting factors of an unmodified SL-1200, and can be upgraded for much less than £600?

I could bring the old horse > bolt > door analogy into the equation again, but I won't.....

In my experience, those who are interested in modifying the Techy to a serious level (beyond attending to relatively superficial items, such as the mat and support feet) tend to go for a PSU or tonearm upgrade first, long before they will consider doing anything with the platter....

Therefore I presume that you've looked at the bigger picture, and so have plans at some point to introduce your own PSU (and perhaps bearing) which compliment the sonic characteristics of your acrylic platter?

Knowing you quite well, and how thorough and how much of a perfectionist you are, I'm certain that will be the case. As I'm sure you'll agree, it's critical that such modifications are carried out holistically, as a system.

In fact, in that respect, whilst I'm obviously keen to hear what the acrylic platter sounds like on my own T/T, I'm beginning to wonder just how relevant my findings will be, based on the fact that my T/T has been judiciously modified with a specific sonic goal in mind, and as such contains products complimentary to achieving that goal, which may not harmonise with 'alien' items introduced into the chain, intended to have a different effect.

But let's do it anyway, as I'm sure it'll be fun and most certainly informative!

Marco.

[Marco]

I have also noticed that Dave C (on his forum) has tried to backtrack on his eulogising only last year of the efficacy of the MN platter....

Well of course everyone is entitled to change their mind or move on, but when you make very carefully considered (and rather impassioned) definitive statements such as this:

Does the new platter work though? Yes it does! Piano music for once sounds like a piano in an über stable way; people talk about pitch stability, but here you have the real thing. Electro-pop music of the 80's that was recorded with quartz PPL locked synthesisers and rhythm generators, suddenly becomes alive as the timing on the Technics really works so well with the added platter mass. Bass is deeper and feels more grown up. The world's best turntables use high mass platters so this was sort of expected.

And particularly this:

The final question is how does the extra mass of the platter affect the dynamics of the direct drive control system. Again we measured. If anything the standard SL-1200 has too much feedback to allow for the DJ scratching use. In fact we do a motor dynamics modification to turn this down a bit. The new platter measures extraordinarily well and for Hi Fi is actually better matched to the "out of the box" dynamics. In fact because of its extra mass it goes some way to improving the stability of the control system when used for Hi Fi. The absolute proof of this is in the listening, and as I said above, five minutes listening to piano music will have you desperately trying to find your credit card!

...which have obviously not been made on a whim, and indeed rather after much considerable thought and deliberation, it's difficult to make a total abandonment of the above statements, and the embracing of an almost entirely opposite approach and methodology, appear as in any way convincing....

I'll therefore leave it to others to make up their minds as to what's really going on.

Marco.