Scalford show 6th March 2011

[alfie2902]

Here's my AoS pic's! Just say if you want to see other rooms from the show?

[Marco]

Nice one, Alfie - yes please, let's see the rest! I'll reply to your other thoughts later

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Nick: what tape you using on the Nagra..Maxell UD35-90? works best for me

[Bazil]

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One bad comment i must make was the lack of food on site, only having sandwiches is just not good enough IMO, we ended up driving back into Melton and having Shepherds pie and a pudding the bonus of that was it only cost a fiver each in the Co-op cafe,

you ate like a king, glass of white wine and a packet of cheese and onion crisps sorted me out

[alfie2902]

Here goes, I'll do 1 room per post. Just with a little info.

This system belongs to Mark (browellm) & was in the Somerby Room. I helped out a little with this system.

ModWright Transporter, Kondo M7 Preamp, Red Wine Audio 70.2 power amps (battery powered), Avantgarde Uno Nano speakers.

[flatpopely]

The Nagra was superb. I'll be getting my B77 out of the loft this week!

[alfie2902]

Alec (Alechodgson) Syndicate 2.

Marantz & CEC CDP, Meridian 605, Castle Winchesters.

[alfie2902]

(BobC) Quorn Room.

Origin Live Aurora TT, Leben Pre, McIntosh MC275 Monos, Lumley II Signature.

[Alex_UK]

Some more musings from Scalford...

Rather than "dis" anyone's system, (to be honest, they were all good in their own ways - there wasn't a system that I thought "yuck" - even though some were more to my taste than others) I think it might be appropriate to make some general observations.

As mentioned earlier, I have very limited experience of other people's systems, so the show was a real eye-opener for me, and not necessarily in the way I expected!

First off, one of the biggest things I noticed is that more than anything, the law of diminishing returns kicks in big time with hifi! I must admit, I now struggle even more than I did, with the "night and day" type of observations I often read. Unless of course I am completely deaf, or don't know how to listen properly, or possibly both!

Putting this into context, I can quite easily tell that there is a massive difference between a Matsui midi system and a "proper" hifi separates system, but once you've got a pretty well sorted set up, the jumps in sound quality are nowhere near as big as I imagined. I came away from the show thinking how rubbish my own kit must be, but actually, after listening to it all day today, it isn't completely blown away by every system out there. (Even less so hopefully after Friday when I collect my Spendors, but I digress...)

To me, putting together an appropriate system is far more important than just waving your credit card at it. What I think I am trying to say is that overall, musicality is the key - I guess it is a bit like a range of cars - sure, a BMW 7 series is going to be bigger and quicker and more luxurious than a BMW 1 series, but at the end of the day, if you live in a city centre and never go very far, a 7 Series isn't going to best suit your needs, whereas if all you ever do is motorway miles, you'll be less comfortable in a 1 Series. In other words, the first and biggest factor on your choice of kit is the environment it is in - you may decide you like BMW, but getting the one to suit your needs is paramount.

An interesting thing is this: I, and a lot of other people who have commented on the various systems both here and on the other forums, have mentioned systems only by referring to the speakers! I didn't realise until I thought about it and looked back - but most people see the speakers as the system - or at least that's the thing they remember... (Maybe that answers Alex (Magiccarpetride's) "What first?" question...?)

Generally, then, if I am to carry on with my own theory and line of enquiry, I was genuinely surprised how much I enjoyed the systems with small speakers. The compromise is that you lose bass and to a lesser degree, scale, however, based on the small speakers I heard, the benefit is that you get a better image - certainly I now understand what people mean by "3D" or "holographic" particularly after hearing the little Harbeths, JR149's and tiny PMCs, the Royd Merlins, ProAc Response, and AVI's - all 6 of these systems were very involving, and intimate, and would probably suit me, playing music at real-world volumes, in a relatively small room.

However, you just can't beat shifting air for real impact, can you? The AoS room proved that! But for me, in my circumstances, the 66's would be completely inappropriate.

I think I also know now what people refer to as a "hifi sound" - and whilst being mindful of my aim of not "dissing" anyone's system, I would have said that overall, the systems based on new or very expensive equipment fell into that category. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but there just doesn't seem to be the soul there. Maybe a bit of a generalisation, but could also be what Marco has often referred to about how modern speakers and components are voiced - overly analytical, and tries too hard to chop the music up, rather than let the whole experience envelope the listener?

Overall, though, I think the one area where I personally could now put my finger on as being aspirational is "clarity" - the systems that I enjoyed most, were the ones where (compared to my own system at least) - (another hifi cliché warning... ) the grain was stripped away. I think this is why the system Jerry had completely hit the spot for me, it was like looking through a window that is so clean, you're not even sure if there is glass in the window - it just allows the music to come through in all its glory, filling every corner of your field of "view" and with an intensity that just gives you the performance of the recording in all it's honesty, adding nothing, and taking nothing away.

I guess I must not forget to mention File Based Audio as this whole post has been at the request of one of its biggest exponents... (Although you may have wanted me to be more specific, John? Give me another half an hour and another glass of Rioja and I might!) Well, not just because it is John, but I must say, I was very impressed with the systems fronted with FBA. That isn't to say they were better than CD or Vinyl - as always, implementation is the key, but I will definitely be investigating lossless and Hi-Res options shortly - so far my computer audio has been completely convenience orientated, but after hearing some of them at the weekend I definitely need to explore it further. That said, the Garrard 401 project definitely needs to get an elevated position on the "to do" list - the show proved beyond all reasonable doubt that whilst computer audio may well be the way forward, analogue is not going to give up without a fight, in the sound quality stakes at least!

Apologies for the essay, I hope if you've got this far that it was worth bothering with!

[Marco]

Hi Mark,

The show was superb Now i have been to hifi shows before but i was a kid & went with my parents. I remember wandering round looking at all sorts of exotic gear including Optonica, Revox etc etc but a show like this is a totally different atmosphere entirely. Even though i was probably only 10 years old, though i honestly cannot remember how old i was as i can't remember where i was (might have been Bournemouth way) i still can't forget the kind of atmosphere that was prevalent, it was all about selling stuff & advertising

Scalford is a totally different kettle of fish, it's simply about getting to have a listen to kit you'd probably never get exposed to with nothing really to do with sales or promotions. It's about fellow music enthusiasts coming together with their respective kit & enjoying themselves in the process I had a great time, thoroughly enjoyed it & opened my ears to some vastly different kit.

Totally agree, and it's that which makes Scalford Hall *the* show to go to for all genuine audio enthusiasts, reducing the commercial shows promoting the industry into almost an insignificance.

After crap like the recent Bristol show, I think it puts things into perspective, especially considering the high standard of sound produced in most rooms by so-called 'amateurs' with mostly very modest equipment....

I'm afraid that dealers and members of the industry can no longer use the excuse of 'bad rooms' for the poor sound often heard with their (sometimes) ridiculously priced kit. So to certain members of the trade I say: wise-up guys and raise your game, before you lose the punters you've got left!

Had a fun time with Alex who i'm very pleased to have met, likewise with the rest of the AoS crew even if i really didn't get very much of a chance to have more than a fleeting conversation which was unfortunate. I guess you got to see as many systems as i had minutes to chat to AoS members

Lol - I know. I'd have loved to have spent more time with you guys and gone for a few beers, but as you've seen, time just flies by! However, both of you are very welcome to visit Marco towers anytime, where you will be able to hear both the Celestions and Lockwoods in their natural habitat, as it were.

As for the AoS system, lets just say that after about midday it rocked I thought i was hearing a very slight edge in the treble first thing, almost like there was a tiny bit of crap on the SPU tip. However on later listening it was totally fluid & sounded absolutely fantastic.

Interesting. I can only put that down to the warming up procedure. Systems always come on song more, in my experience, after a few hours of music have been put through them. As all the records played had been cleaned to within an inch of their lives before the show on the RCM (), I doubt it would've been due to any crap on the tip of the SPU.

It was a bit of a revelation to hear vinyl with such a low & consistant background noise, i can see why RCMs are popular & of course the obligatory make-up brush... No - it truly did work, unfortunately i have so little vinyl it just wouldn't be worth the investment

Lol - yus, oi lurves me wee brush! But yes, RCM's do work wonders, as does proper 'record hygiene', says he who plonked a record directly onto the carpet after use, due to sheer laziness!

Nah, that was a one-off, due to not wanting to keep folk waiting for me to play the next record. I don't do that at home. Anyway, I'm glad that cleaning the records properly paid off and that all the hours spent doing it was worthwhile!

Nicks Nagra was frankly stunning & when it was first played which would have been early on i immediately nodded my head & thought "that's it"! This would have been mitigated later though as the Techie & SPU sounded wonderful..

Cheers, dude. Nick's Nagra was bloody wonderful, and for me (along with the Techie) hammered home analogue's superiority (when done well) over very good digital.

Steve's modded Eikos is one of the best CDPs I've heard - what it does with the texture and phrasing of vocals in particular is superb, but as good as it is (and my Sony combo applies here, too) it doesn't quite allow you to suspend disbelief in the musical performance, making you feel that what you're hearing is real, as opposed to merely an excellent recording of such, in the way of Nick's Nagra or the Techie.

But that's not a criticism of the Eikos, more of the sonic limitations of digital compared with analogue, as heard in our system. The Eikos is pretty much as good as it gets with a CD player.

I was absolutely mesmorised by the Pink Floyd and John Martyn recordings on Nick's Nagra - utterly enchanting!

The Ditton 66 frankly sounded huge which was a bit of a shock due to the room size, they still filled it though & did a superb job!

I know exactly what you mean!

When I saw the size of the room I was a bit worried that the copper amp would struggle to drive the Celestions to serious levels, due to the fact that they're not as big or efficient as the Lockwoods (after all it is 'only' a 40W valve amp), but once we'd got the speaker positioning reasonable (more on that in a minute) my concerns proved to be unfounded, although next year it'll be interesting to hear what the 66's do on the end of an SS muscle amp, such Martin's superb Chord!

By the way, i should have got you to play track 1 of that CD i brought along

Lol, no worries. Although I enjoyed the track, I was sitting there waiting for something major to happen, such as a big explosion, or some major deep bass to kick in, but it never really came....

I think as me & Alex discussed though i think you'd have had a slightly better sound if the 66s had been moved in towards the equipment by about a foot or so. This would have given a better image on the front row seating whilst still accomodating those standing behind the rear seating... Just imo of course..

Spot on! Not only in yours, but also mine. That's what I was referring to earlier when I mentioned I'd learned something about the room and how the Celestions had interacted with it. Some adjustments will definitely be made next year.

The trouble is that the Mana supports don't facilitate easy alternative positioning (as once the spikes bite into a carpet, it's difficult to move the supports into a different area without completely upsetting the positioning), and after having spent a good hour and a half optimising the speaker positioning, we were tired and faced with yet more farting about, or settling for where they were and going to the bar for a few beers... Undedicated lazy bastards that we were, we opted for the latter option!

Next year, presuming we can get the same room, I'd do exactly as you say and also move them further back nearer the rear wall. That is how they work best chez-moi.

Other than that, top notch & yes 40W of class A valve amp does indeed go very loud A normal front room would be a quarter of the volume so i think that just about says it all

Indeed. Now just imagine what it sounds like at home in a much smaller room (albeit it having very good acoustics) with a dedicated mains set-up, more Mana, and also through the Lockwoods, which are much bigger and more efficient (and every bit as musical), and you'll appreciate how I can achieve SPLs far in excess of 100db, as well as making you feel queasy with the sheer physicality of the sound....!

More comments tomorrow - off now to bo-bos!

Marco.