Noisy Caiman relays

[bpcairns]

Hi, This is aimed at Stan but I'd welcome any opinion.

My Caiman DAC squeaks between tracks. It is not coming from the speakers, it is coming from the DAC itself. I can make it squeak by pausing the music. I am 99.99% sure that it is the muting relays.

My question is, If I remove them and put a wire link across the pins that are joined by the reed switch (The outside pins), do I also have to put a 1K resistor across the pins that carry the activation signal (inside pins) or can I leave them disconnected? Anything else I should be aware of in doing this? Are both sides of both components used? It may only be one of the relays that is noisy but I can't tell so intend to remove both.

My friend has another Caiman that does not suffer this problem. You can just hear his if you stick your ear to the box.

Please don't tell me this is a bad idea, I can't live with the noise as I can hear it from the other side of the room with the DAC closed and these components seem to me to perform no particularly useful purpose.

Many thanks for any help with this.

[slate]

Mine comes with a twirp sound every time; sometimes I ignore it, some times I consider starting to re-rip my collection and use cue sheets.... then it would only happen once pr CD

[HighFidelityGuy]

I can't comment on the technicalities of removing the relays, I'll leave that to someone more knowledgable. However, I do think there's a slight flaw in your plan... The relays are there to stop noises that come from the DAC chip output from getting to your speakers between tracks. So by bypassing them to remove one set of noises you could be allowing a new set of noises to come through.

It seems odd that some people experience this more than others. Perhaps it's dependant on the transport being used. Either way I'd have a chat with Stan and see if he can shed more light on the issue before you go removing relays.

[bpcairns]

Hi guys and thanks for your comments.

Re-ripping the collection is an interesting idea, hadn't thought of that. Not 100% sure it would fix the problem, I get the noise when I pause the sound so any period of silence triggers it, but easily verified by ripping one CD to try. Gapless CDs which are splIt into tracks don't cause the problem though.

Hifidelityguy-

One of Stans own mods involves soldering coupling capacitor onto a point past these relays, no-one has reported a problem, in fact I read somewhere on here that the main purpose of these is to give very good test results for signal to noise in synthetic tests. So it looks good when compared to others.

The noise is the mechanical reed switch turning on then off. A different transport makes no difference. When the sound stops, the DAC "squeaks", "twirp" would serve as well as a description.

I've tried my DAC in another system with both CD and a different PC feeding it (SPDIF) it squeaks every time the music stops, either at the end of tracks or if the music is paused. My friends identical Caiman does not make the noise. (well it does but it is much quieter and can't be heard unless you stick your ear very close to the DAC. ) Incidentally playing a gapless CD like Pink Floyd's The Wall there is no problem, The music never stops so the relay never squeaks. I'm convinced that I have (probably one) particularly noisy component in my particular DAC and any benefit it is supposed to provide is outwieghed by the component being faulty. I could buy a replacement and it MIGHT be quieter but I'm 100% certain a wire link will make no noise at all....

[HighFidelityGuy]

Hifidelityguy-

One of Stans own mods involves soldering coupling capacitor onto a point past these relays, no-one has reported a problem, in fact I read somewhere on here that the main purpose of these is to give very good test results for signal to noise in synthetic tests. So it looks good when compared to others.

The noise is the mechanical reed switch turning on then off. A different transport makes no difference. When the sound stops, the DAC "squeaks", "twirp" would serve as well as a description.

I've tried my DAC in another system with both CD and a different PC feeding it (SPDIF) it squeaks every time the music stops, either at the end of tracks or if the music is paused. My friends identical Caiman does not make the noise. (well it does but it is much quieter and can't be heard unless you stick your ear very close to the DAC. ) Incidentally playing a gapless CD like Pink Floyd's The Wall there is no problem, The music never stops so the relay never squeaks. I'm convinced that I have (probably one) particularly noisy component in my particular DAC and any benefit it is supposed to provide is outwieghed by the component being faulty. I could buy a replacement and it MIGHT be quieter but I'm 100% certain a wire link will make no noise at all....

I've done the mod you mentioned (passive mod) and I don't have any problems with obtrusive noises between tracks as such but I recently noticed that I do get a fast high pitched clicking noise constantly while no music is playing for longer periods. This is enough to stop my power amps from going into standby if I don't turn the volume down on my preamp. These are the types of issues you can expect by bypassing the relays.

Once I get round to it I'll be installing a gator board and reinstating the muting relays.

It sounds to me like you just have some bad relays. I guess some are noisier than others due to manufacturing tollerances. Based on my experience I would replace the relays with new ones and hope they were quieter. But at the end of the day it's up to you. You just need to understand that you may be trading one set of noises for another.

[bpcairns]

OK, I've removed one of the relays (the one that runs lengthwise along the PCB) and it seems to have fixed the problem. It seems that it was only necessary to make the links between pins 1 and 7 and pins 2 and 8. The pins in the middle can be ignored.

I'll post a picture if I can figure out how.

I note Hifidelityguy's comment about the DAC passing a signal that could interfere with the poweramps' standby. Not an issue for me as I'm pretty sure my venerable Linn LK280 doesn't do anything as sophisticated as standby but it may be an issue for others.

My DAC now makes no noise when moving between tracks or pausing. Haven't listened to it enough to determine if it sounds different. If it does it isn't obvious but I'll report back if further listening reveals anything.

[brassman]

Hi,

I am new to the forum, and I have the same problem with my Caiman. Can you put pictures about your solution? and a greater detail to try to correct the problem?

Thanks in advance

[StanleyB]

You can try the folowing mod. The resistors are 18K.

[paul_cz]

Stanley,
what does that mod do? Does it bypass the Relay?

cz

[bpcairns]

On further listening I discovered that I could occasionaly hear the second relay (I think), so it is gone now as well.



Here is a picture with the relays removed and replaced by wire links.



You'll notice I've ignored the inside contacts, don't seem to be needed for anything. Only given this a quick listen so far but it sounds identical to my freinds caiman.

Sorry Stan, by the time I saw your suggestion I'd already done this. Not sure what your suggestion achieves though, surely the relays will still switch on and off with these resistors in place? If that's right then it wouldn't fix my problem. Am I missing something about how these relays work and what they do?