CD transports - do they matter?

[Togil]

Unfortunately they are hoping DAB stations will be listened to through TVs.

The other awful thing about DAB is that the portables are useless as the battery runs out within a few hours

[Marco]

Steve,

I tend to agree with you about FM radio. And like you say the groundswell of acceptance hasn't happened, which is quite refreshing as the general public are normally like sheep and simply follow the latest trends whether they are actually any better or not!

DAB is just plain shit. It's another example of convenience over quality in hi-fi which really does not appeal to my purist sensibilities.

Ron Smiths are fabulous things and I'm sure you're getting some lovely sounding music through your Kremlin. If I was in the market now for a tuner I might have been tempted by the one in Infidelity. However I have other priorities at the moment, namely modifying my valve amp.

Have you ever thought about getting into valves, Steve? It'll be interesting to see what you think when you come over. You'll even have the opportunity to compare my Yaqin to the ECS/Stealth monoblocks you so loved over at JW's. I think you'll be in for a surprise

Marco.

P.S Tony has gone very quiet regarding this high definition format thingy. Come on, Tony, I asked you some questions. Let's have some answers please!

[nat8808]

Just to chip in - the BBC have had digital converters at their transmitters for years and are low bit like 14 bit or so (maybe they've changed them now?), the transmitted signal being created from the digital signal. I also recently read an article in an old Hifi News written by Alan Shaw (the Harbeth designer) talking about how the 'faults' of vinyl are also good psyco-acoustic techniques to make things sound good to a human (stuff to do with noise floors etc). Quite interesting .. Could explain much of the preference that people have for vinyl and FM radio over some digital - Digital could actually be allowing our sensitive ears/brains to realise what has been recorded is not real, whereas analogue can provided psyco-acoustic distractions to mask the un-reality (and therefore be interpretted as more real) afterall, real life involves our ears/brains having to sort through a load of distracting information to focus on what is important at the time - to do that while listening to music that shouldn't really be there in our living rooms will make our brains feel at home so to speak.

My small experience with different transports demonstrated a large difference [sic] between the sound of a Meridian 200 Transport and 602 transport into a 601 processor (might have been a Cello Series 8 DAC actually, can't remember). The 200 had a much more 'weedy' sound - thinner, less weight, smaller soundstage. The 602 was more bloom-y, sweeter, wider sound, felt more real. I was surprised at the difference and makes me wonder if there's a (used) transport I should try that will raise the bar again by the same margin.

[nat8808]

Just to add, most of the stations I can pick up on DAB in central London just play the usual cheesy pap.. Seems to be being used to provide more MOR commercial stations. 6 Music is good though once you're out of the prime-time slots at least.

I mourn the days of proper, run by Robert Smith of the Cure, XFM when it was made up of speciality music shows, wide, wide range of music styles with DJs who were into each genre and playing mostly non-mainstream music. Oh well, ratings and money flow wins the day..

[lurcher]

Just to chip in - the BBC have had digital converters at their transmitters for years and are low bit like 14 bit or so (maybe they've changed them now?), the transmitted signal being created from the digital signal. I also recently read an article in an old Hifi News written by Alan Shaw (the Harbeth designer) talking about how the 'faults' of vinyl are also good psyco-acoustic techniques to make things sound good to a human (stuff to do with noise floors etc). Quite interesting .. Could explain much of the preference that people have for vinyl and FM radio over some digital - Digital could actually be allowing our sensitive ears/brains to realise what has been recorded is not real, whereas analogue can provided psyco-acoustic distractions to mask the un-reality (and therefore be interpretted as more real) afterall, real life involves our ears/brains having to sort through a load of distracting information to focus on what is important at the time - to do that while listening to music that shouldn't really be there in our living rooms will make our brains feel at home so to speak.

Yep, I have thought that for some time (about why analog that is in theory definatly inferior for red book CD, doesn't work as well as vinyl). I still keep coming back to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

BTW, 14 bits gives you more than 80dB S/N so enough for any tuner

[StanleyB]

BTW, 14 bits gives you more than 80dB S/N so enough for any tuner

Some of the 1st generation CD players that entered the hifi market in 1983/84 were 12 bit players. They sounded just fine.

[lurcher]

Some of the 1st generation CD players that entered the hifi market in 1983/84 were 12 bit players. They sounded just fine.

Yep, one of the games I can play with the CPLD in my dac is truncate the word length, I suspect the folks who crave for 24 bit reproduction might be a bit upset how 15 and 14 bit sounds,

Are you sure about the 12 bit? I know the early Phlips (Sony and Meridian) machines used 4 times oversampling with cunning noise shaping and 14 bit DACs

[leo]

Are you sure about the 12 bit? I know the early Phlips (Sony and Meridian) machines used 4 times oversampling with cunning noise shaping and 14 bit DACs

I think your right, I rescued an old Philips CD101 which has a pair of TDA1540's, I thought those was one of the oldest in commercial units.
Could be wrong though

[Mr. C]

When the original red book format was being finialised, differences between Sony and Phillips engineers happened over the Finial bit rate (which was indeed 14 bit) Phillips in the end getting their way!
I would agree with some of Lurcher comments on 14 bit resolution, some of the studio's we deal with still use a 14 bit mastering kit from time to time to obtain that 'specific' sound for various artists and bands. It does sound good too!
Personally I prefer 32 and 64 bit depth recordings (those these are very rare and we do have equipment that can reproduce this), purely down to the amount of information available that can 'paint the picture properly' when you hear these compared to red book it does make you realise how far red book is off the pace.
Interesting thread too.
Regards T.

[lurcher]

Personally I prefer 32 and 64 bit depth recordings (those these are very rare and we do have equipment that can reproduce this), purely down to the amount of information available that can 'paint the picture properly' when you hear these compared to red book it does make you realise how far red book is off the pace. Interesting thread too.

64 bit? Are you suggesting you have analog equipment that can resolve a S/N ratio of 387dB. Thats a ratio greater than 20000000000000000000 to 1.

What ADC or DAC are you using in that chain?

Or do you mean equipment that processes internally to 64bit precision?