SL-1200 Platters, bearings, mats and PSU's, cartridges, arms, and more...

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

I'm staying out of this one, because I have no knowledge of either party's products. All I will say, though, is that as an impartial observer, the whole sorry state is very sad and I believe not good for the onward development of "race-tuned" products for the SL-12X0...

Thanks for your thoughts. I know where you're coming from, and there is undoubtedly some truth in what you say.

Since Dave C's return to AoS, which incidentally I saw as a good thing (and still do), after our disagreement over modified PSUs and platters for the Techie a few month's back, I was of course aware of the fallout between him and Mike, but had tried to remain neutral and deliberately stayed out of it in the public domain, as I believed that both of them had something to offer.

However, when Dave (DSJR) copied and pasted here what Dave C had written on the Timestep forum, basically rubbishing very good products (the sonic benefits of which I know all too well), as I use some of them myself, in order to protect his commercial interests and 'score points' against Mike, I couldn't believe what I was reading, and something had to be done.

You cannot make comments like Dave did and expect them not to be challenged, even from the relatively safe sanctuary of your own forum. The Internet is often a remarkably small place....! Dave has undoubtedly shot himself in the foot with some of his remarks - and with a blunderbuss rather than a shotgun.

I think it's very important to have as much factually correct information as possible written in the public domain about any products, in order that interested parties can use that information to arrive at an informed conclusion of their own, not one fatally influenced by commercial bias - and on AoS we will always strive to achieve that.

I sincerely hope that Dave and Mike can put their differences behind them and constructively move forward in their own separate ways, for the very reasons you mentioned.

As far as AOS is concerned, we will always support any products, whether Technics T/T related or otherwise, that are considered as excellent in a given application, and to that end both Dave and Mike are welcome to contribute to our community and advertise their products where necessary.

Marco.

[Virak]

If the motor can take disco antics then the heavier platter won't be of any consequence.

Keep in mind that DJ's use slipmats, so the platter can move freely while they manipulate the records. Most DJ's are very lighthanded.
If you look at the strobe dots on the SL-1200Mk2 in a turntablism (scratching) video, you'll see that they hardly move at all.

[Alex_UK]

I don't think you can say fairer than any of that Marco - I am an eternal optimist, but reconciliation seems unlikely (understatement of the day) so let's hope things move on more constructively, as you said.

[Clive]

Keep in mind that DJ's use slipmats, so the platter can move freely while they manipulate the records. Most DJ's are very lighthanded.
If you look at the strobe dots on the SL-1200Mk2 in a turntablism (scratching) video, you'll see that they hardly move at all.

I wasn't inferring they force the motor backwards! Any movement of the dots will require more force than is required to keep a heavy platter running at the correct speed.

[colinB]

One thing that attracted me to the forum as a technics owner was the fact that there was fellow techy users pushing the deck to its potential and having alot of fun doing it. Although their was commercial interests involved the engineering ideas seemed sincere and there was no bullshit.
Its sad that things are getting a bit confused and messy.
I hope further experimentation and testing of the Technics will continue by other forum members , people like Marco and Martin whose opinion i trust.

[Virak]

I wasn't inferring they force the motor backwards! Any movement of the dots will require more force than is required to keep a heavy platter running at the correct speed.

OK. Most audiophiles seem to have the misconception that DJ's force the platter itself, so I thought it would be appropriate to clarify a little.

More OT, I've been following posts regarding SL-1200Mk2 modifications for a couple of years on various forums, and it's the stuff that this thread is about that made me buy KAB products for my Technics'. I'm not saying KAB's products necessarily are the ultimate, but trusting the manufacturer/vendor is important to me. Enough said.

[Mike_New]

Hi Alex
Gee you are beautiful! I’m a red wino myself.

What this has done is to create a tsunami of opinions on the subject, which in a way can only be good for the likes of Paul Haynes and myself!! who will continue to offer our upgrades as before. For my part I will continue to research and develop further upgrades in order to facilitate the further sonic quality of the SL1200 range.

As a result of Clive’s observations concerning temperatures, I have just put my reference bearing into the freezer. I will report on the results later.
As I stated earlier it was not in my design calculations for the bearing to be used in the outer reaches of Mongolia in mid winter.
In fact no good quality audio equipment should be subjected to such sever temperature cycling, it does not do the components any good, especially valves!!

Martin is absolutely correct in his observations. In fact when you think about it, the bearing has zero side forces in a properly balanced and level situation.
The only force is downwards by virtue of gravity. The bearing housing and bush is there to stop the platter falling over.

The weight of my alluminium platter I do not think affects in any way, the performance of the DD motor. And with the Paul Haynes PS it becomes even less relevant.

[Pete]

One thought I had, is that even though the SL1200 chassis is carrying much more weight with the MN platter & bearing/plate, I do not believe it is 'overloaded' or that the drive system is overtaxed.
On the contrary, I am hearing the best vinyl playback ever out of this deck, and I would bet that it rivals super high end decks.
I also have the Hynes PR3HD power supply module in a DIY PSU I built (equivalent to the SR5)

I think if there is anything to be gained, the very last smidgen of improvement might be realized with a whole new plinth, which is vastly stiffer than the SL1200 chassis. But this is only speculation on my part.

Hey... someone ought to design one Please add provision for both 9" and 12" tonearms as well.

[Mike_New]

For all those that are still interested in my bearings seizing up.

I placed my reference bearing in my freezer at a temp of -5degC for 1 hour.
on taking it out, it was indeed stiffer to turn. It took about 2½ hours to return to room temp. So you see my calculation was about correct, the bearing will work over the accepted SRT to about plus/minus 20degC although I do not believe anybody would want to play their SL1200 on a snowy winters day in the garden.
The reverse will obviously hold. That the bearing will free up (not seize) when placed in a warmer environment.

On another subject;
For all of you who have purchased one of my bearings would you please email me your name and address. If not your address then the country you live in.
The reason being, is that I would like to have a record of all my bearings sold, so that I can if needs be support all of you in the future.
Thanks Mike

[MartinT]

I hope further experimentation and testing of the Technics will continue by other forum members , people like Marco and Martin whose opinion i trust.

Thanks, Colin. I not only love the sound of my SL-1210 but am happy to help others achieve its potential, too. Also happy to have members around for a listen if you can get to Basingstoke.