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Thread: Progression?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre View Post
    But your putting up with noise from the record which alone would drive me nuts or don't people listern intensly? Most the recording on vinyl that i listern to sound terrible, i can't alter that. CD for me kills all these problems

    Alex: Regarding your comment about speakers, i disagree.
    Andre, I fully understand where you are coming from but as I have got older I have learnt to make allowances for the fact that this is older technology. I listen to every single thread and nuance in the music but the surface noise is minimal and I allow for it. I still work in a darkroom producing photographs that would obliterate a digital print and it is very hard work and really tiring to do with the old technology but I make allowances because the end result is just so clearly superior.

    I really am a purist. There is no getting away from that. I do things because I have a driving passion for them. I adore music with the same passion that drives me to appreciate a fine photographic print. I am not interested in a digital facsimile of the real thing.

  2. #22
    Join Date: May 2008

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    I'm ILOB.

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    Some interesting thoughts
    I tend to think in terms of DACs what we get in terms of cost to performance levels is really good I still wonder if a top DAC from the 80s would still be equal or even better (sorry never heard a top DAC from this period so no idea)
    I tend to imagine that a Denon 100M would still be hard to beat at any costs
    For me what has changed is our knowledge of how to get the best out of the equpment we use.
    Loves anything from Pain of Salvation to Jeff Buckley to Django to Sarasate to Surinder Sandhu to Shawn Lane to Nick Drake to Rush to Beth Hart to Kate Bush to Rodrigo Y Gabriela to The Hellecasters to Dark Sanctury to Ben Harper to Karicus to Dream Theater to Zero Hour to Al DiMeola to Larry Carlton to Derek Trucks to Govt Mule to?

    Humour: One of the few things worth taking seriously

  3. #23
    Join Date: May 2008

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    As far as Tuners go on the whole we gone backwards and sometimes I worry about the way many Loudspekers are voiced
    Loves anything from Pain of Salvation to Jeff Buckley to Django to Sarasate to Surinder Sandhu to Shawn Lane to Nick Drake to Rush to Beth Hart to Kate Bush to Rodrigo Y Gabriela to The Hellecasters to Dark Sanctury to Ben Harper to Karicus to Dream Theater to Zero Hour to Al DiMeola to Larry Carlton to Derek Trucks to Govt Mule to?

    Humour: One of the few things worth taking seriously

  4. #24
    Join Date: May 2008

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    I'm perhaps not the right sort of person to post in this thread (and even here these days???), but I ought to say this from my experiences and current perspective...

    In terms of recording technology, DIGITAL has been a godsend to the purist recording engineer. Good digital over the decades has provided us with no mod-noise from analogue recording tape, no dropouts if the mediums are looked after and a purity of reproduced sound compared to the original as monitored in the studio which no analogue recording came close to until Dolby SR and the late generations of recorders. In the olden days, the engineers had to work round the compromises and because they cared, the results could be stupendous. The problem is that digital opens the door to all sorts of sonic "manipulation" and this is best heard via the singles chart full of manufactured pap (!). The same can't be said of the best classical recordings however.

    Haselesh is welcome to differ with me on this, but comparing vinyl and CD (yawn) is purely a matter of personal taste, as when it comes to comparing both with the master recording, vinyl trails way behind. The best cuts often had all sorts of eq and careful limiting done to make the sound "impressive" but on a modern wide-range system, it shows most often IMO.... In fact, I remember max Townshend comparing a carefully set up Rock with a budget CD player and the two sounded much the same on a decent recording. The 1980's Rock 2 was regarded as a good turntable at the time.

    As for vintage vs modern domestic playback gear, I think the biggest changes have been in the setup of the equipment. New plinths and supports have improved old classic turntables no end. Cables and wires are better these days too and thank heavens a little bit of decent provable science is coming back outside of the loopy "Audiophool" arena, which is a standing joke amongst "everyone else" in the recording industry.

    By the way, for small to mid sized speakers, ACTIVE really is the way forward, removing at a stroke the mix-n-match domestic amateur disasters so beloved of many audio enthusiasts at all levels of expenditure IMO and experiences.

    Apologies all, I tend to be a hybrid where reproduced sound is concerned. I have a museum antique system not of the top tier, but have heard enough decent pro grade sources and owned good monitors, as well as heard plenty of live acoustic music to realise that most "nice sounding" valve-n-vinyl systems are way, way short of reality. Vinyl certainly has a sense of "body" to the sound and many records were balanced to exploit this, and CD hasn't always been well served either, but I have enough good CD's to realise just how much better this format can be.

    Anyway, the next generation won't know what to do with either an LP spinner or a CD, as everything will be downloaded or licensed a la Spotify I think. We're just a bunch of ageing men living in the past and looking back with a false sense of nostalgia I reckon...
    I can't go on and I can't go back, I don't feel so matter of fact,
    I tried and tried to make good sense, What's the good to try it all again?

  5. #25
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    Alex_UK is offline Spotify + Facebook Moderator / Chilled-Out Wino and only here for the shilling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    The Caiman is glorious all round but still can't image like my Techie can.
    Neither did mine compared to my Garrard 401 until yesterday. Four words for you Shaun - Caiman passive output mod (unless you've already done it?) If you only need the line out and not the headphone socket then do it per AndrewR's post #117 - best couple of quid you will EVER spend on your hifi - the improvements are not to be underestimated! (Rubycon caps from Tirna here)
    Alex

    Main System: Digital: HP Laptop/M2Tech Hiface/Logitech Media Server/FLAC; Marantz SA7001 KI Signature SACD Player and other digital stuff into Gatorised Beresford Caiman DAC Vinyl: Garrard 401/SME 3009 SII Improved/Sumiko HS/Nagaoka MP-30
    Amplifier: Rega Brio R. Speakers: Spendor SP1. Cables: Various, mainly Mark Grant.
    Please see "about me" for the rest of my cr@p! Gallery


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  6. #26
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    Alex_UK is offline Spotify + Facebook Moderator / Chilled-Out Wino and only here for the shilling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre View Post
    Alex: Regarding your comment about speakers, i disagree.
    Indeed, (that's allowed! ) - your experience is probably much greater than mine, it is entirely possible I made some bad choices early on and got lucky later on, or that all my systems were crap in the past and it is only now that by luck it is coming together, but I would never want to go back to my Wharfedale Lintons or Goodmans (whatever they were) cheapies.
    Alex

    Main System: Digital: HP Laptop/M2Tech Hiface/Logitech Media Server/FLAC; Marantz SA7001 KI Signature SACD Player and other digital stuff into Gatorised Beresford Caiman DAC Vinyl: Garrard 401/SME 3009 SII Improved/Sumiko HS/Nagaoka MP-30
    Amplifier: Rega Brio R. Speakers: Spendor SP1. Cables: Various, mainly Mark Grant.
    Please see "about me" for the rest of my cr@p! Gallery


    A.o.S. on Facebook - A.o.S. on Spotify - A.o.S. on Twitter

    There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing Aristotle

  7. #27
    Join Date: May 2008

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    I'm David.

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    A certain active speaker with built in DAC has apparently had a retro-fittable update not too far removed (in concept, if not similar to) from the direct-mod on the Caiman and similar improvements have been noted. The crossover frequency may have been altered too, but not being an owner I'm not sure..
    I can't go on and I can't go back, I don't feel so matter of fact,
    I tried and tried to make good sense, What's the good to try it all again?

  8. #28
    Join Date: May 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_UK View Post
    Indeed, (that's allowed! ) - your experience is probably much greater than mine, it is entirely possible I made some bad choices early on and got lucky later on, or that all my systems were crap in the past and it is only now that by luck it is coming together, but I would never want to go back to my Wharfedale Lintons or Goodmans (whatever they were) cheapies.
    Alex, you need to look at Quad 57's, Spendor BC1's, KEF 104ab's and the shelf mounted Corelli version, Tangent TM1, TM3 or RS2 or RS4, let alone the bigger MA's, Celefs, Celestion Ditton 66's and IMF's from the 70's. These are still good speakers if set up right and the bass quality of these comes into it's own on a decent digital source.
    I can't go on and I can't go back, I don't feel so matter of fact,
    I tried and tried to make good sense, What's the good to try it all again?

  9. #29
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    Can't comment on the Rubycon caps yet (thanks again Alex - looking forward to getting them), but I've been getting excellent results with Nichicon caps - I've got some rather nice Silmics in mine at the mo'

    This diagram makes things clearer http://theartofsound.net/forum/showp...&postcount=381

    You really need to try the passive mod Shaun - it's also completely and easily reversible, so if youd don't like it ........
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

  10. #30
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

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    Unfortunately my knowledge of messing with the internals of Hi-Fi is non existant. I buy, I listen, I do not mess with things I know nothing about. Many thanks for the advice though.

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