Accuphase e212 or Accuphase e211 or Krell 400xi?

[DSJR]

Speak to HiFi dave, he had a clients brand new Luxman amp annihilated by a Croft Micro25/Series 7 just a few weeks ago... Client apparently agreed and was rather confused how a couple of cheap looking black boxes could sound so much better than his beautifully crafted Luxman

We're talking AMPS, not CD players, ok? I don't believe my comments were to do with Accuphase CD players and I apologise if you thought they were.


Nick, have you heard the 400Xi? It doesn't sound as "tense" or "forced" as bigger Krells sometimes could and there's absolutely no harshness, which plagued the old KAV series..

What I was clumsily trying to suggest is that people like Anthony TD could probably supply an amp which wipes them all at similar money and luxury finish and Glenn Croft could supply something fantastic in plain boxes for around £1500 to £2600 or thereabouts..

[Nick]

Speak to HiFi dave, he had a clients brand new Luxman amp annihilated by a Croft Micro25/Series 7 just a few weeks ago... Client apparently agreed and was rather confused how a couple of cheap looking black boxes could sound so much better than his beautifully crafted Luxman

We're talking AMPS, not CD players, ok? I don't believe my comments were to do with Accuphase CD players and I apologise if you thought they were.


Nick, have you heard the 400Xi? It doesn't sound as "tense" or "forced" as bigger Krells sometimes could and there's absolutely no harshness, which plagued the old KAV series..

What I was clumsily trying to suggest is that people like Anthony TD could probably supply an amp which wipes them all at similar money and luxury finish and Glenn Croft could supply something fantastic in plain boxes for around £1500 to £2600 or thereabouts..

Hi Dave

Yes, I have heard the 400Xi and I agree with you it not like the old KAVs, this point I mentioned in my original answer.

I would respond by asking if you have heard the current Luxman Class A amplifiers ?

It's all about application, I think, but to suggest that the Luxman amps are all show and no substance is wide of the mark. There are areas where my 550 shows the Yamamoto how it's done. My experience is that it's dangerous making blanket "wipe the floor" statements when the results in different circumstances might be reversed.

It also has to be taken into account that not everybody wants a system that looks like a school science project

[hifi_dave]

I know what Dave is on about and you have to appreciate that he has had a tremendous amount of 'high end' audio kit through his hands over the years and a lot of it isn't really that good !!!

A lot of us have experienced the beautifully made, superbly finished, stunning looking, high end box of tricks that you just cant stop fondling and for that to be blown away by an ugly, cheap looking item at a fraction of the cost. It happens time and time again and is one of the 'joys' of Hi-Fi, I guess.

Having said that, the pride of ownership does come into it and if you've several grand weighing down your pockets, it is the beautiful box with the silky controls and power meters which is going to attract you. Where's the joy in placing a tinny black box on your hi-fi rack, even if it sounds better ?

This is all so subjective and the OP really should make an attempt to hear the amps in question. How else can he make a valid choice which suits him, his system and his room ?

[DSJR]

I'd add that Naim didn't get to where they are now (probably one of the biggest UK audio manufacturers) by slick controls or well finished good looks. back in the day, the 12S/120 could totally obliterate so many huge and expensive Japanese and US concoctions and that's why we at KJ took the agency on in 1977.

The OP is going to spend a load of dosh on a "statement" amplifier brand. I'd echo the sentiments here that he MUST see if he can get to hear them (and possibly a good STABLE valve amp like an EAR 599)...

[DSJR]

The Audio warehouse list on here suggests they have a Krell KAV400Xi for £1400 with a warranty?

Good amp IMO at a very good price if it's in good condition with box etc...

[jandl100]

In my opinion, there are so many amp choices out there that it's not really in your own interests to limit yourself to just the three listed.

Given that choice though ... I haven't heard a current Accuphase, but I have owned a Krell 400xi - the sound is a bit on the smooth, warm and gently coloured (rose tinted?) side of things. If you want to capture the full excitement and pizzaz of music then you need to look elsewhere, imho. But it has good power and control, and decent rez, and won't get fatiguing for long listening sessions.

I have owned a vintage Accuphase E202 ... very nicely musical and a pleasure to listen to. A bit 'safe' sounding, but none the worse for that, really!

Luxman has been mentioned by some folks, above. I've not heard a current Luxman amp at home, but in other systems I have heard they are a bit clinical and with a bit of an etched top-end which doesn't suit some folks. Almost the opposite to the Krell 400xi sound, really.

If it were me, I'd certainly add a valve amp or two to my shopping list. You may be pleasantly surprised at the bass control you can get, and often enough the mids and top have a realistic 'palpability' that solid state does not often manage.

IMO. YMMV.

[DSJR]

I think Jerry is our resident expert on user-reviews as he's had a good many good products through his hands...

The apparent gentleness of the 400Xi is infinitely preferable to the almost harsh "solid state" nature of the previous model IMO and from experience of the FPB 200 and 300 we had at the same time, this tonal quality was generic to the whole family of Krells of the period.

I really love the EAR599 for its "gentle giant" qualities, a huge pity it's so terribly expensive these days.