Expensive CD players - worth it?

[Marco]

Can't agree, it's a digital signal, the transport has to very poor or faulty not to output that perfectly.

But the other day we were talking about die-cast metal mechanisms in the likes of Barry's ML and my Sony, and I thought we agreed that such things mattered?

However, you're looking in the wrong area. I'm talking about the effects of vibration and it's audible effect in the signal path: a plastic transport mech will be more resonant than a metal one - and you can hear it, certainly in my experience.

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Skipping can also be due to a failing belt. People automatically assume that skipping means it's the laser although that's rarely the case. But it could also be any number of other things too.

Took the Marantz into Richer Sounds this morning. Bloke there is pretty confident the fault will be the belt, as you suggested I know you said they are about a fiver, but I wouldn't be confident messing with it. If they can sort it for the sixty quid I advanced I'll be ok with that.

[Macca]

But the other day we were talking about die-cast metal mechanisms in the likes of Barry's ML and my Sony, and I thought we agreed that such things mattered?

However, you're looking in the wrong area. I'm talking about the effects of vibration and it's audible effect in the signal path: a plastic transport mech will be more resonant than a metal one - and you can hear it, certainly in my experience.

Marco.

Better transport will read damaged discs to greater extent and will probably last longer, but that's really about it.

If vibration is affecting a digital signal you'd get drop outs in the signal, not slightly worse sound quality. All players buffer to some degree so the level of vibration has to be quite high. Much higher than when it's sat on a shelf in a room.

[Marco]

Better transport will read damaged discs to greater extent and will probably last longer, but that's really about it.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, as it's not what my experience tells me.

Sony built the X-777ES with a die-cast metal transport mechanism not just to help make it last longer, but to control vibration. There are many areas of its design that do similar, obvious when you look under the hood, such as dampening foam on the PSU caps, so it's clearly an area Sony felt was necessary to address in their statement products.

Marco.

[Macca]

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, as it's not what my experience tells me.

Sony built the X-777ES with a die-cast metal transport mechanism not just to help make it last longer, but to control vibration. There are many areas of its design that do similar, obvious when you look under the hood, such as dampening foam on the PSU caps, so it's clearly an area Sony felt was necessary to address in their statement products.

Marco.

Yeah my TEAC 701 transport has the same but IMV it's all just over-engineering to create a USP and partly justify the high price. If you look at the measurements (which you won't of course!) performance is no different from a much cheaper player or transport. Personally I couldn't hear any difference from the Audiolab transport that it replaced, and that has a slot loading drive originally intended to be used in cars.

[Marco]

If you look at the measurements (which you won't of course!) performance is no different from a much cheaper player or transport.

Lol yes, but you need to be measuring for the right things, with the right equipment...

Like I said, you're looking in the wrong area. It's not about 'performance'.

Marco.

[Stranraer]

Personally I couldn't hear any difference from the Audiolab transport that it replaced, and that has a slot loading drive originally intended to be used in cars.

I bet you can hear that the TEAC doesn't sound like an industrial coffee grinder when discs are going in or out, though

[Macca]

I bet you can hear that the TEAC doesn't sound like an industrial coffee grinder when discs are going in or out, though

It is silent in operation, which does matter!

[Lawrence001]

In a word Madrigal are a fucking useless company to deal with, and I for one will never buy anything from them again.

Not often I see you using that language Barry, I take it you've had issues with them yourself?

[Barry]

No it's true I don't often expletives, but Madrigal really are a lousy company displaying no interest in aftersales service. It is not just me, hifi_dave will confirm my opinion - and he is in the trade.

What really annoyed me was Madrigal having bought out Levinson, decided they wanted everything 'under one roof', including their service department. That meant sacking all the service and repair engineers used by Levinson, and to make matters worse, they dispensed with all the specialised components that went into early ML gear.

A truly excellent repair expert in the UK: The High End Workshop, that specialises in upmarket US audio electronics, such as Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Krell etc. now no longer repair or service Levinson products, precisely because of Madrigal's lack of interest or help in older designs.

Madrigal are not the only company to do this: it's a fairly common practice these days. In the past if you bought say an amplifier, along with the installation and operating instructions, there would be a circuit diagram and a list of components, their makes and values. Thus if something went wrong a competent EE could diagnose the fault and repair the item. Not today!