Jimbos Audio ramblings

[Macca]

Your right Martin.

Though voltage is also a varying voltage.

Its analogue...conceptually speaking (which wot I waz)
I.e. its not 'on' or 'off'

Its ALL analogue.
It's a waveform.

My point was that voltage (of any flavour) is subject to external factors, electrically speaking.

And yup,
The output stage just reflects what's came before, kinda like Ivor Tefunbruns's 'garbage in garbage out' analogy...

(i'll get my coat)

yes you are right, voltage is analogue.

[Macca]

Good to get another confirmation LPS is a worthwhile upgrade to use with a DAC. I know from amplifier design it also one of the most crucial aspects in their construction.


I was watching an interesting review of a number of power supplies recently used to power a DAC, these include SMPS and Linear and the results were similar to what I experience. It also may explain why I am getting such good results with my SMSL SU-1 DAC which relies totally on an off board PSU to power it.

I have two DACs one uses a mobile phone charger (SMPS) the other has two built in linear power supplies, one for digital side, one for the analogue. I can't differentiate between them

Is my system not resolving enough? Well, I use very good speaker in a large room with good acoustics and the room is passively treated. I can't 'know' but I suspect that's not the problem.

Am I not discerning enough? Maybe.

Of course you can't extrapolate one person's experience with two DACs to everyone's experience with all DACs.

I would say that IME of listening to systems using very fancy and expensive DACs which were not, overall, delivering sound quality that was as good as I get at home, that if someone is looking to improve their system the DAC is not the place I would start. I'd put it bottom of the component list in terms of importance.

[Jimbo]

I have two DACs one uses a mobile phone charger (SMPS) the other has two built in linear power supplies, one for digital side, one for the analogue. I can't differentiate between them

Is my system not resolving enough? Well, I use very good speaker in a large room with good acoustics and the room is passively treated. I can't 'know' but I suspect that's not the problem.

Am I not discerning enough? Maybe.

Of course you can't extrapolate one person's experience with two DACs to everyone's experience with all DACs.

I would say that IME of listening to systems using very fancy and expensive DACs which were not, overall, delivering sound quality that was as good as I get at home, that if someone is looking to improve their system the DAC is not the place I would start. I'd put it bottom of the component list in terms of importance.

Yeah individual listening experience definitely will determine what you think a DAC is contributing to the system. Of course some folk think they may hear a massive difference between DACs where as others perceive the difference as minor or none at all.

I agree that DACs would definitely be at the bottom of my component list in terms of importance when trying to improve the Sound Quality of your system.

[Gazjam]

All things being equal,
for a digital based system I’d focus on the Dac myself?

opinions vary!

[Macca]

All things being equal,
for a digital based system I’d focus on the Dac myself?

opinions vary!

But an expensive DAC won't salvage rubbish speakers in a bad acoustic. Whereas a cheap DAC will sound fantastic with good speakers in a good acoustic.

I had a listen to a system with a Chord DAVE which is about 11K and Chord amps which were also very expensive. But the loudspeakers were not very good so the sound was not very good

If all that budget had been devoted to the speakers instead of the DAC there's no question that it would have been an order of magnitude better.

Likewise another system with full DCS stack - hundreds of thousands just for the digital front end. It was unlistenable. Ripping distortion in the top end.

Nothing to do with the DCS or the speakers, there was some other issue going on, but the mega money DAC/reclocker/power supplies couldn't salvage it.

[struth]

I always like to go speaker first unless I'm very attached to an amp. Those are the 2 'must get rights'

[Gazjam]

Hear ya,
Few shows I’ve been to and I’m like, Is that it?
The DCS room at the Bristol show a couple of years was a major wtf.

All about it being a system and having good synergy.
The bottleneck will always make other gear, no matter how good, drag the final product down I reckon.

From the mix of components in a box to the way it all hangs together.
Including the room I reckon.
not looked into room treatment myself, though stuck a table with a big Yukka palnt behind one of my speakers and had to give the other one a bit more toe-in to get it balanced again.

Paraphrasing Dad’s Army… that too is on zee list.

need to add tho,
with a resolving system and setup, anything that is “better’ should show off what it can do, all things being equal.
you’d like to think so anyway?

[Jimbo]

I think I agree with you Grant - work back from the speakers. So important to find the right speakers that are the right size for your room and work with its. Also it is critical the tonality and resolution you want is achievable from the speakers. I think working backwards everything else is a notch down until you get to source and then unless you have something really crap on the front end it should sound great.

`Obviously it is far easier to do this with digital rather than analogue where it is generally much more expensive and labour intensive. I can see why digital has so many attractions.

It is always so difficult to try and get a decent sound in your room if you don't get the right speakers and then you try and adjust everything else to compensate. You certainly will never do this with a DAC or a turntable!

[Barry]

But an expensive DAC won't salvage rubbish speakers in a bad acoustic. Whereas a cheap DAC will sound fantastic with good speakers in a good acoustic.

I had a listen to a system with a Chord DAVE which is about 11K and Chord amps which were also very expensive. But the loudspeakers were not very good so the sound was not very good

If all that budget had been devoted to the speakers instead of the DAC there's no question that it would have been an order of magnitude better.

Likewise another system with full DCS stack - hundreds of thousands just for the digital front end. It was unlistenable. Ripping distortion in the top end.

Nothing to do with the DCS or the speakers, there was some other issue going on, but the mega money DAC/reclocker/power supplies couldn't salvage it.

I could never understand why dCS gear costs as much as it does. Maybe it's the cost of sculpting the ridiculously thick front panel.

[Barry]

I think I agree with you Grant - work back from the speakers. So important to find the right speakers that are the right size for your room and work with its. Also it is critical the tonality and resolution you want is achievable from the speakers. I think working backwards everything else is a notch down until you get to source and then unless you have something really crap on the front end it should sound great.

`Obviously it is far easier to do this with digital rather than analogue where it is generally much more expensive and labour intensive. I can see why digital has so many attractions.

It is always so difficult to try and get a decent sound in your room if you don't get the right speakers and then you try and adjust everything else to compensate. You certainly will never do this with a DAC or a turntable!

This is the complete opposite of Linn's mantra "Source first", and "Garbage in - garbage out". But then I didn’t believe anything Linn said, or the sycophantic reviewers.