Jimbos Audio ramblings

[Gazjam]

I have heard examples I think of most of the chips out there and I agree the Sabre can be a bit aggressive. Problem with all DACs is that whatever chip they use it all comes down to the implementation in the finished product. PSU and analogue output can completely change the sound.

exactly right.
same Dac chip in a different Dac won’t sound the same.

worth getting Psu and output stage right, more influence (imo) than choice of Dac chip, unless you go FPGA like Chord, DCS and PS Audio, then it's down to Software.
even with that uber solution, if the PSU and analogue output stage isn't done right, the Dacs sound will take a big hit.

all a bit of a tangled weave this digital stuff.
the 1’s and 0’s part was done a while ago, it’s all the other stuff where innovation comes from I think?

[Puffin]

In another thread I was asking for help understanding what was going on with the Spotify feed to my Dacs when using Spotify. I have 2 Dacs that take DSD processing a Topping D30 (up to 24bit/192 khz and an ifi Zen Dac v2 which takes up to 32bit/384khz. It shows a different coloured LED according to what it is processing.

It tells me that it is processing/giving out DSD. I understand that ASIO which windows uses converts this to PCM at 32bits and streams a "native" signal. I have the option to select a whole menu of different bit and sampling rates which I am now wondering if I am being tricked into thinking that the higher the rate the better the sound, or is the case that regardless of what I input, ASIO and DSD will put out what it receives? Sorry if this sounds a bit mixed up, but I am.

Link to ifi explanation here :-

https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/dop-versu...-similarities/

[Jimbo]

exactly right.
same Dac chip in a different Dac won’t sound the same.

worth getting Psu and output stage right, more influence (imo) than choice of Dac chip, unless you go FPGA like Chord, DCS and PS Audio.
even then if that’s not done right, the Dacs sound will take a big hit.

all a bit of a tangled weave this digital stuff.
the 1’s and 0’s part was done a while ago, it’s all the other stuff where innovation comes from I think?

Totally agree Gary.

So much of the gear we use depends on top notch power supply, get that right and everything else has a good chance of sounding decent. I think amps more than DACs are dependant on great PSU and as I have found the better the PSU the better the sound. I use a Linear PSU at 5v with the SMSL Su-1 DAC and the USB /SPDIF convertor and it helps out a fair bit. Sound is definitely more spacious and effortless.

[Macca]

In another thread I was asking for help understanding what was going on with the Spotify feed to my Dacs when using Spotify. I have 2 Dacs that take DSD processing a Topping D30 (up to 24bit/192 khz and an ifi Zen Dac v2 which takes up to 32bit/384khz. It shows a different coloured LED according to what it is processing.

It tells me that it is processing/giving out DSD. I understand that ASIO which windows uses converts this to PCM at 32bits and streams a "native" signal. I have the option to select a whole menu of different bit and sampling rates which I am now wondering if I am being tricked into thinking that the higher the rate the better the sound, or is the case that regardless of what I input, ASIO and DSD will put out what it receives? Sorry if this sounds a bit mixed up, but I am.

Link to ifi explanation here :-

https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/dop-versu...-similarities/

none of this will make any difference, you can't add what is not there to begin with whether you upsample, convert to DSD, whatever.

Always telling that people need the little lights to tell them what 'resolution' they are listening to.

I'd just switch it all off. Spotify premium is a long way below CD (320Kbit/s compared to 1411kbit/s) and tests show most people cannot distinguish between them and those who can don't find it easy. So doing all sorts of magic tricks with it is certainly pointless.

[Puffin]

none of this will make any difference, you can't add what is not there to begin with whether you upsample, convert to DSD, whatever.

Always telling that people need the little lights to tell them what 'resolution' they are listening to.

I'd just switch it all off. Spotify premium is a long way below CD (320Kbit/s compared to 1411kbit/s) and tests show most people cannot distinguish between them and those who can don't find it easy. So doing all sorts of magic tricks with it is certainly pointless.

Thanks for your thoughts. I have no problem with the way it sounds.

[Gazjam]

none of this will make any difference, you can't add what is not there to begin with whether you upsample, convert to DSD, whatever.

Always telling that people need the little lights to tell them what 'resolution' they are listening to.

I'd just switch it all off. Spotify premium is a long way below CD (320Kbit/s compared to 1411kbit/s) and tests show most people cannot distinguish between them and those who can don't find it easy. So doing all sorts of magic tricks with it is certainly pointless.

Mibbay a bit harsh Mate?

Digitals not as simple as some make out, sure, it WORKS but it's not always optimised to be its best.

I say you gotta try oversampling filters, upsampling, DSP and all that stuff, because even though its 'Digital', it still is privy to the rules of Synergy in your system.
Even in the mico universe of your Digital playback chain, Hell even your Dac or digital transport Topology.

This Games subjective,
Ones room/noise profile/ preferred system flavour ain't anyone elses, so there's no "one size fits all" outside of pedantic hifi dogma


I enjoy listening to Spotify through my Apple TV, it sounds great.
No one size fits all Amigo, it's all good.

(I enjoy other ways to play my music too, all equally enjoyable, or I wouldn't be doing em )

[Macca]

Mibbay a bit harsh Mate?

Digitals not as simple as some make out, sure, it WORKS but it's not always optimised to be its best.

I say you gotta try oversampling filters, upsampling, DSP and all that stuff, because even though its 'Digital', it still is privy to the rules of Synergy in your system.
Even in the mico universe of your Digital playback chain, Hell even your Dac or digital transport Topology.

This Games subjective,
Ones room/noise profile/ preferred system flavour ain't anyone elses, so there's no "one size fits all" outside of pedantic hifi dogma


I enjoy listening to Spotify through my Apple TV, it sounds great.
No one size fits all Amigo, it's all good.

(I enjoy other ways to play my music too, all equally enjoyable, or I wouldn't be doing em )

Think I am being misunderstood here, There's nothing wrong with Spotify, that's what I'm saying.

[Gazjam]

There's nothing wrong with Spotify, yeah.

All singing from the same Hymn Sheet.

[Jimbo]

I spent today messing with room acoustics again! My room is not acoustically symmetrical as my furniture does not allow this currently and although I thought I had sorted first reflection points I have had a re think as I discovered an imbalance from my speakers. Luckily I can use the dual volume controls on the Croft to balance things somewhat but I think a more effect solution will be some more room treatment.

I need to build at least another panel or maybe a larger panel for the left hand side of the room so as soon as I can get some more materials I will get building again. It is very strange how sound imaging from your speakers is located by your hearing as obviously the speakers bounce the high frequencies off any reflective surface they can. And as I have found out room treatment can untangle the crazy reflections and produce much better imaging and depth from the speakers.

So I will be back to the staple gun asap!

[Jimbo]

The SMSL -Su1 DAC is still surprising me with its fabulous performance and is definitely the best bang for buck device I have bought and used in my system. It would be highly amusing to compare this DAC against some "High End" DACs out there as I am sure in a blind listening test it would whop a fair few. I have been reading a number of other folk around the audio community have indeed found this to be the case.

This got me thinking, are DACs at the upper end of the market just either overcomplicated, overpriced or both as indeed the job they have to do is mainly done by the DAC chip which costs peanuts. The rest of of the DACs design is really where the costs ramp up especially complicated PSU and clocking and not least features and Casework. But at the end of the day I am sure this all has marginal gains and like expensive cables there is a good sprinkling of snake oil.

Of course proof of all this is in the listening and as I have found from personal experience some of the more expensive DACs out there are very ordinary sounding and only marginally superior to very cheap DACs in SQ. Their features, casework and complexity and build maybe superior but the actual listening experience quite often does not justify the price. Again I liken this to my experience with cables where I have had some extremely expensive cables in my system and they have sounded no better or actually worse than some cheap cables.

To put things into perspective I have found far greater differences between cartridges and turntables than I have ever between DACs and there is certainly a massive difference in listening experience between speakers but maybe less so with amplifiers, however even these have greater impact on listening experience than different DACs.

All the rest of the mumbo jumbo around DACs ie R2R vs Delta Sigma vs FPGA , multiple power supplies, ultra clocking, topology, connection capabilities, Hi Rez etc etc just dances around the head of a pin. It begs the question just how many ways does digital audio need to try and resolve something that was meant to have been 'perfect sound forever". Apparently if you have followed digital audio for the last 40 years there have been unbelievable amounts of change which have resolved this perfect sound for ever. Digital was meant to have been sorted 40 years ago but if you have followed every twist and turn there has been always been something else discovered that has resulted in better digital sound.


In my experience it never was perfect and never will be.....?


A pic of the inside my SMSL - SU1 showing the AKM4493S velvet sound technology chip and some nice Japanese Rubicon caps.

617778A3-022C-4634-83D4-88FB02C235A7 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]Jurl], on Flickr

AKM data sheet on the chip used. It has some fantastic digital resolving capabilities.

https://www.akm.com/us/en/products/a...dac/ak4493seq/