Jimbos Audio ramblings

[Jimbo]

I have found similar, speaker 8’ apart and listening 10’ away. This 1.25 times the 8’, several set up gurus recommend up to 1.2 times.

I experimented with toe in and have found that angled so each speaker is firing just past my ears, or they axial cross at about 2’ behind my head gives a good soundstage and on most recordings, depending on mix I get that speaker disappearing trick.

By the way I sit about 2.5m forward from the wall behind me, and speaker fronts are about 1.5m from the wall behind them.

I tried several variations but this seems to work best in our room.

Looks like I have found a similar set up to yours is producing similar results Adrian. `Good to get confirmation you also hear better presentation from this set up. My measurements are very similar to yours sitting about 10 feet away with an 8 foot gap between the speakers.

What are you room dimensions BTW?

[Macca]

Three variables - room, speakers, personal taste.

Okay so you need a triangle but not necessarily an equilateral triangle.

Most rooms I've had weren't wide enough to get the speakers really far apart so with equilateral triable I end up sitting too close. I really don't like sitting so close to the speakers.

I find in terms of soundstage/imaging that it throws the baby out with the bathwater. But then I tend to favour large multi-way speakers - with a small one or two way speaker maybe sitting almost on top of them is better for soundstage.

[Jimbo]

I actual find the the equilateral triangle position sounds worst in my room especially as they are large speakers. You end up with a weird distorted presentation of the sound not unlike standing next to big concert PA systems where you have a very unbalanced sound that is usually all bass or ear bleeding loudness if your too close. I used to go to a lot of metal concerts where thus happened back in the late 1970s.

Obviously speaker manufacturers would like you to think that you could manage almost any of their speakers in any room size but although this is true to an extent it means if you have large speakers in a small room you are hearing a very near field sound presentation which although maybe listenable and suggest great clarity is completely screws with the soundstage and imaging. It is better to actually have smaller speakers in a big room rather than big speakers in a small room as although you won't get much bass from small speakers playing a large room you will get fantastic soundstage and clarity. I found this when I first heard the LS3/5as in a large room. Fantastic sound albeit zero bass!

Large speakers in a small room simply accentuate and swamp the bass and screw with soundstage so you end up continuously trying to ameliorate the effects!

The best solution really is obvious. The correct size of speakers for the room you are listening in which takes away much of the hard work trying to make them "fit".
I have spent the past few months simply trying to get the very best combination of speakers/ room / treatment / positioning to get the optimum balanced sound from my set up that conveys all the scale and detail I want. Finding that optimum set up really takes time and is obviously very personal to you own listening requirements.

[Pigmy Pony]

Three variables - room, speakers, personal taste.

Okay so you need a triangle but not necessarily an equilateral triangle.

Most rooms I've had weren't wide enough to get the speakers really far apart so with equilateral triable I end up sitting too close. I really don't like sitting so close to the speakers.

I find in terms of soundstage/imaging that it throws the baby out with the bathwater. But then I tend to favour large multi-way speakers - with a small one or two way speaker maybe sitting almost on top of them is better for soundstage.

Mine is a scalene triangle, also known as a "If you don't like it you'll have to sit on the floor" triangle. My sound from my set up is actually quite good close up, probably because they're full range drivers. But Anita wouldn't be able to see the telly, so that won't work.

Obviously the ideal solution would be a dedicated listening room, but that's not happening.

[Macca]

Mine is a scalene triangle, also known as a "If you don't like it you'll have to sit on the floor" triangle. My sound from my set up is actually quite good close up, probably because they're full range drivers. But Anita wouldn't be able to see the telly, so that won't work.

Obviously the ideal solution would be a dedicated listening room, but that's not happening.

you can get some pretty fancy 'Garden Rooms' these days, if you've got the space out back. The one my brother installed last year is better than my house.

[Barry]

The centre of my speakers are about 2 metres apart and my listening position is about 5 metres from the the speakers; so an isosceles triangle (and in fact slightly scalene) with the speakers facing and 'on-axis' to my listening position. Being panel speakers, almost as much energy is radiated from the rear as from the front, so they need to placed well away from a rear wall. As such there is only one practical arrangement possible in my room.

It may not be ideal, but is an arrangement I have lived with for 45 years (and the speakers for 50 years!)

[Jimbo]

The centre of my speakers are about 2 metres apart and my listening position is about 5 metres from the the speakers; so an isosceles triangle (and in fact slightly scalene) with the speakers facing and 'on-axis' to my listening position. Being panel speakers, almost as much energy is radiated from the rear as from the front, so they need to placed well away from a rear wall. As such there is only one practical arrangement possible in my room.

It may not be ideal, but is an arrangement I have lived with for 45 years (and the speakers for 50 years!)

It would be interesting to know how many folk have isosceles triangle set ups, I suspect quite a lot? Room shape and furniture often dictate listening set up and take priority over the "ideal" set up.

[Macca]

The centre of my speakers are about 2 metres apart and my listening position is about 5 metres from the the speakers; so an isosceles triangle (and in fact slightly scalene) with the speakers facing and 'on-axis' to my listening position. Being panel speakers, almost as much energy is radiated from the rear as from the front, so they need to placed well away from a rear wall. As such there is only one practical arrangement possible in my room.

It may not be ideal, but is an arrangement I have lived with for 45 years (and the speakers for 50 years!)

i have pretty much identical room and speaker positioning. Although most of the time I sit off to one side. Never been that bothered about soundstage really especially since once I heard it done properly I realised I would never get even close to that in my room.

[Jimbo]

i have pretty much identical room and speaker positioning. Although most of the time I sit off to one side. Never been that bothered about soundstage really especially since once I heard it done properly I realised I would never get even close to that in my room.

Listening off axis can be very good, one of my mates with an ultra high end system listens regularly like this.

[rmcin626]

you can get some pretty fancy 'Garden Rooms' these days, if you've got the space out back. The one my brother installed last year is better than my house.

Might go down the garden room route myself, if we don’t move house, although we are struggling to find something we like in our budget. As my current music room , the loft is far from ideal.