Tell Me Something............Anything!

[Macca]

I wonder whether that view has changed in Nambia since the 90s? And if as a country under direct colonial rule decided to keep the statues of its oppressors, then why not a country where the oppressors were actually from, I guess that's it, our collective guilt, as performed by 'the woke', who decide daily what we should and shouldn't atone for.

in fairness to the 'woke' if it wasn't for the 'woke' kicking up a fuss in the 18th century we might still have slavery now. But that battle was won a long time ago. What they want now is something entirely different.

[Mikeandvan]

I agree with Macca, although I'm not sure 'the point' is to divide us, but that certainly ends up being the result. The thing is before the George Floyd/BLM thing happened, the issue of 'problematic' (a favourite Woke term) statues wasn't so pressing. It seemed to be confined to statues in the grounds of elite universities, specifically Oxford 'Rhodes must fall' and Cambridge - a 'looted' statue of a cockerel that was handed back to Nigeria in 2021. One wonders that hundreds of years after the event, what these performative displays are supposed to achieve. The main reason given for the removal of these statues is that they are offensive to students of colour, so it boils down to an issue of student welfare, the same sentiment that the 'cry bullies' of Durham university are now expressing after their outrage that Rod Liddle should be able to give a speech there https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-59552264. If these students felt so strongly about learning at a university so directly wedded to Britain's establishment, then one does wonder how they can even bring themselves to study there in the first place, let alone eat directly from the demon hand which oppressed their ancestors by accepting a Rhodes scholarship! The G Floyd incident was May 2020, the Colston statue was pulled down in June 2020, then a few months after councils all over the country are nervously having meetings about which statues in their boroughs may be problematic. And so we end up with a statue of the Scouts founder being considered for removal, and so on, where does it end? These activists are so short sighted, so sure of their righteousness that they are calling for the Churchill statue in Whitehall to be removed, down here in Brighton the huge Queen Vic statue on one of our main avenues has also been targeted, and considering the right on nature of our local council, I wouldn't be surprised to find it gone! There is a similar argument going on in Spain at the moment around statues linked to Franco, this I think is quite different, with some still grieving over the victims of that conflict, the same rawness is nowhere near being felt in the UK statue debate.

[Barry]

That many other countries practiced slavery (and some still do, but not in name), makes it all right then?

[Macca]

That many other countries practiced slavery (and some still do, but not in name), makes it all right then?

Makes what 'all right'? Slavery? Obviously not.

It does mean that you can't blame any one particular country or culture for it though. They all culpable in that the concept of slavery was accepted and practiced by all of them.

[struth]

Agreed, nothing makes that ok. At time of course it was, but the UK were one of the first to outlaw it.

[Barry]

1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade.

and then

1833 - Britain passes Abolition of Slavery Act, ordering gradual abolition of slavery in all British colonies. Plantation owners in the West Indies receive 20 million pounds in compensation. (£20 million in 1883 is the equivalent of about £2.3 billion today)

[Mikeandvan]

1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade.

and then

1833 - Britain passes Abolition of Slavery Act, ordering gradual abolition of slavery in all British colonies. Plantation owners in the West Indies receive 20 million pounds in compensation. (£20 million in 1883 is the equivalent of about £2.3 billion today)

It's sick isn't it? And they were still paying the comp in the twentieth century apparently! The British establishment did some truly awful things, including getting half of China hooked on opium, one does wonder when they'll take their revenge.......

[guy]

That many other countries practiced slavery (and some still do, but not in name), makes it all right then?

not at all, but wouldn't our energies be better spent wiping out slavery where ever it is going on today?

Or do we go the whole hog and destroy all relics/buildings/statues celebrating any empire from past times which made money from slavery - thats any statues from Ancient Rome fucked for starters.

Or are you suggesting that it was only wrong for particular countries at certain points in history? What would be the criteria for wiping history

[Mikeandvan]

not at all, but wouldn't our energies be better spent wiping out slavery where ever it is going on today?

Or do we go the whole hog and destroy all relics/buildings/statues celebrating any empire from past times which made money from slavery - thats any statues from Ancient Rome fucked for starters.

Or are you suggesting that it was only wrong for particular countries at certain points in history? What would be the criteria for wiping history

I demand the old financial district around St.Pauls in London is demolished immediately, starting with the Bank of England, and that's just for starters.

[Barry]

not at all, but wouldn't our energies be better spent wiping out slavery where ever it is going on today?

Or do we go the whole hog and destroy all relics/buildings/statues celebrating any empire from past times which made money from slavery - thats any statues from Ancient Rome fucked for starters.

Or are you suggesting that it was only wrong for particular countries at certain points in history? What would be the criteria for wiping history

I'm not suggesting we 'wipe' or re-write history, I am suggesting that it would be good idea to remove statues celebrating those who were involved in, and profited from the slave trade (including royalty, for example: Charles II).

As to slavery where ever it is going on today: well you could make a start with some Saudi households in London, as well as much of the domestic staff in Mauritania. The treatment of some of the Uighurs in north western China would be another area to look.