New Solid Aluminium Platter for the SL1200

[pure sound]

No, not at all. I just think that the change in the demands made of the motor control do need to be accounted for. Once it's decided that a heavy platter can be controlled & won't generate excessive low level noise, there are then various ways that such a platter could be made ie from 1 homogenous lump of material or perhaps a lamination of layers. There's scope to do quite alot.

It is making the end result somewhat expensive though. It would be interesting to make the comparison between a fully modified 1200 and a similarly priced 'normal' deck. The advantage that the 1200 enjoys through being a mass produced item is somewhat diminished by the substitution of expensive precision parts made in small quantities.

One other point. People keep saying that the 1210 motor was used to drive cutting lathes. Actually I think a motor that worked along the same principles as the turntable motors was used to drive cutting lathes and was called the SP-02. Something similar to the SP-02 was used in the SP10 Mk3 but that motor is a very different animal, in performance terms (noise, torque, accuracy) to the one fitted to the 1200/1210.

[Marco]

Hi Yves,

Good point, but subjectively perceived noise is one thing - measured noise is another.

As a subjectivist, I'm all for using my ears, but it's impossible for our ears to accurately assess the noise floor generated by the equipment we use. All we can detect as being present is what we perceive exists, and unfortunately that's not enough.

I'm sure in the past you've upgraded equipment or cables and noticed a perceived lower noise floor as a result, as indeed we all have.... However, did you notice the noise before it was removed?

Well of course, no - and that's the thing....

Only when low-level noise is removed (which we likely didn't even realise was there), and we have something with which to compare the 'before & after', are we able to recognise the existence of any noise. When low-level noise is generated by equipment or ancillaries, we often don't notice it, particularly when our ears are seduced by a sonic effect we enjoy. There are, after all, limitations as to what our ears can do.

Therefore returning to what Guy wrote:

It's really a question rather of whether the increase is significant & whether the benefit of a heavier platter being controlled by this particular motor (& drive electronics) outweighs the effect of an increase in the noise produced by the bearing.

That remains the key issue, and in order to ascertain and judge the effect of both, objective analysis with suitable measurement apparatus is required. Dave Cawley I would suggest is best placed to do this. There is a time and place to obsess over measurements - and this is one of them!

Only then will we know for sure whether the new platter brings more to the party than it detracts.

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Guy,

The advantage that the 1200 enjoys through being a mass produced item is somewhat diminished by the substitution of expensive precision parts made in small quantities.

I know where you're coming from, but all the "expensive precision parts made in small quantities" of which you speak, apart from being engineered and built to the highest standards, are fully supported and guaranteed similar to any stock Technics parts, which makes your point somewhat moot....

The fact that the SL-1200 remains in current production, and therefore completely serviceable at any time, regardless of whether some of its constituent parts are replaced or not, is its major advantage over, for example, the SP10, where you're dealing with largely obsolete mechanical parts and control circuitry which are over 30 years old, and more likely functioning at considerably less than their original capacity (subject to being serviced/rebuilt by trained personnel).

That is the main reason (amongst others) why I've rejected the SP10 option, and instead gone for maxing-out my (bought brand new) SL-1210. In the end I obtain SP10 performance (or perhaps even better, admittedly at considerable cost) without the ball-ache of finding a mint SP10 in a top-notch pinth that's functioning (guaranteed) at 100% of its original capacity, which is all I'd be interested in - and that for me is a win-win

Marco.

[Clive]

I can't help wondering how the electronics in the Techie respond to a heavier (11.5lb) platter vs the original 4.4lb one, even with a powerful motor. I would have thought the idea of a DD is to be able to extremely rapidly adjust speed to be correct. Doesn't extra weight cause problems? As ever theory is one thing, sound another!

[Rare Bird]

Doesn't extra weight cause problems? As ever theory is one thing, sound another!

[Marco]

Indeed - that's why we need a platter for testing, A.S.A.P, so we can assess things properly

Let's face it, the only way any of us are going to buy one is when someone we trust reports that it's a MASSIVE sonic upgrade over the stock platter (which warrants the cost) and that the extra weight definitely doesn't cause any problems for the motor and/or generates more noise from the bearing....

My suggestion would be either for Mike or Dave to supply a test platter (it could be one of the early 'imperfect' looking ones - as long it does the job) for (only serious) potential customers to pass round and assess over a given period of time before purchase of a brand new one. Also any purchase of a new platter would have to carry a guarantee that the motor unit would not be damaged over a given amount of time in relation to its normal lifespan.

Otherwise I can't see anyone shelling out £650 for something that may only offer a slight sonic improvement (or a trade-off of such) and that could potentially cause damage to the T/T motor unit in the long term.

Marco.

[REM]

It might be useful to have some idea about the projected longevity of the bearing considering the job it would be asked to do. Has Mike done any work in this respect by any chance?

A straight comparison between the New platter and the stock platter+Rubato copper mat would be interesting.

[DSJR]

The only thing I think which will be subject to the extra mass is the bearing, and that should be changed first in any case....

[colinB]

I know little about TT bearings but i used to refit massive motors for the M.O.D some of which had armatures on a vertical plane and the bottom bearings would need a bit of grease and they would be up and running again after 10 years of constant running. Those bearings looked weak compared with the bronze bearing. It looks like it could take an elephant.

[REM]

Dave, Colin,

It's the New bearing I'm referring to, of course, as far as I know the new platter will only be supplied to those who already have the New bearing.

However, it would be prudent to ascertain if there had been any actual work done on the projected bearing life given the mass involved. The history of audio is littered with heroic failures that should have worked but didn't due mainly to lack of proper development and it would be pretty awful if this ended up as another case of hindsight being a wonderful thing.

Cheers.