New Solid Aluminium Platter for the SL1200

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that - again most interesting.... What about the questions I asked in my previous post?

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

I'd be very surprised if there was any additional noise from Mike's bearing with a heavier platter, since it is so well engineered. Whether the motor controls need to be adjusted to take into account the additional mass is not important, since the essential parameters can be easily altered by someone who knows about these things.

The copper mat thing interests me, even though I no longer own a Technics deck. Does the copper mat work because it, in effect, provides the mass and rigidity that the standard platter patently lacks? Mike used to use a copper mat "stuck" down to the standard platter using silicone grease - does the new machined platter move things along significantly? I would venture an opinion is that the flimsy interface between the Technics' alloy chassis and the main bearing housing is a more fundamental issue than the limitations of the standard platter; also it is clear (to me at least) that one of the reasons why Mike's bearing works so well is that, because it is very strong and utterly rigid, it imparts strength to that part of the chassis that did not have it before. It's also a very fine bearing, of course!

It does look more and more like the motor from the Technics is the only bit worth shouting about!

[chris@panteg]

chris@panteg,
Firstly the Larry that Citation is refering to, is Larry Denham of TTweights in canada.
The flywheel effect that Citation was refering to. In any control system one always has the effect of feedback, the amount to correct any error being proportional to the error in many ways. Instantaneous value, rate of change of error, (de/dt) etc. These corrections are the subject of some pretty involved maths, as indeed they are with audio amplifiers!!
I do not believe that the DD would be any different in this regard, it could be argued that if the platter were of very low mass then any friction or stylus/music effects would occur more quickly and require more frequent corrections. The much heavier mass of the new platter greatly reduces these variables from any instantaneous change, as any heavy platter on any good TT is designed to do.
The flywheel affect would naturally be present as a function of diameter and mass, and is what is required for absolutely smooth control with minimum feedback affects from external influences such as stylus friction. The reason that the DD system is so very excellent for TT application over the elastic band driven machines, is that the correction is immediately felt by the 'system'. In any belt drivem system the belt per se' has to transmit the correction to the platter which can result in all sorts of effects caused by instataneous belt stretch etc. (and this stretch would be proportinal to platter mass) remember in all of these equations we are talking of very small values because that is what recorded sound is all about.

Hi Mike

Many thanks for that , with your new platter i would suggest a dealer fitment and adjustment (Dave) for best results .

[chris@panteg]

It does look more and more like the motor from the Technics is the only bit worth shouting about!

Shuggie ' its looking that way ' but i think the top plate is also very good and solid, but it may have to be replaced also if one wants to go the whole 9 yards.

[pure sound]

I'd be very surprised if there was any additional noise from Mike's bearing with a heavier platter, since it is so well engineered.

I'd be very surprised if there wasn't. More load equals more friction & therefore more noise. It's really a question rather of whether the increase is significant & whether the benefit of a heavier platter being controlled by this particular motor (& drive electronics) outweighs the effect of an increase in the noise produced by the bearing.

I can well imagine Mike's bearing being quieter than the stock bearing, but loading it more may give some of that advantage away.

[Marco]

Hi Hugo,

It does look more and more like the motor from the Technics is the only bit worth shouting about!

Lol - it's always been that way (as I've said many times before)

I've always seen my SL-1210 as a top quality motor unit with some 'free bits' included - nothing more.

The novel thing about the Techy is that you can take a fairly inexpensive turntable, still in current production, and upgrade it slowly in affordable steps, to become something truly world-class, and that every upgrade step and associated product is supported and guaranteed by a knowledgeable UK dealer. *That* for me is invaluable!

No other turntable in the world offers such in-built flexibility and peace of mind upgrading potential - and that makes it a dream come true for people who would like to own a genuinely hi-end brand new T/T, but who couldn't afford to buy one of the recognised models outright

Btw, I had the opportunity recently to hear an utterly superb Kenwood/Trio L07-D, fitted with a Linn Troika, which was by far the best D/D turntable I've heard (yes, notably better than any SP10 I've heard so far!) I'll therefore be taking my Techy round to see how close it gets, as IMO the L07-D will act as an ideal benchmark from which to judge just how good my SL-1210 is - and how much better it could become with a superior PSU, new platter and plinth....

The results will be reported in Strokes of Genius in due course, so look out for that!

We must also arrange to do our own little T/T bake-off sometime

I've also recently taken delivery of a Paul Hynes SR3-21 PSU, with very interesting results, and I'm awaiting delivery of an SR5 for similar evaluation purposes. The latter will be compared with an HE Timestep, in due course (with and without Mike's new platter).

Exciting times are ahead!!

Marco.

[Marco]

I'd be very surprised if there wasn't. More load equals more friction & therefore more noise. It's really a question rather of whether the increase is significant & whether the benefit of a heavier platter being controlled by this particular motor (& drive electronics) outweighs the effect of an increase in the noise produced by the bearing.

I can well imagine Mike's bearing being quieter than the stock bearing, but loading it more may give some of that advantage away.

That's also how I see it, and hence why I've asked Mike to offer his opinion on this. Before I drop £650 on a new platter, I need to be 100% sure I'm doing the right thing!

Over to you, Mike (and/or Dave)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Guy

Do you think its a step too far ? are we going beyond what the deck is really capable of as some believe ! .

[MartinT]

Does the copper mat work because it, in effect, provides the mass and rigidity that the standard platter patently lacks?

It's interesting to rap the platter both with and without the copper mat. The former rings like a bell while the latter gives a completely dead thud. The extra mass slows the startup, which doesn't concern me, but probably doesn't bother the Mike New bearing in the least.

[Citation16]

More load equals more friction & therefore more noise

Anything is possible vis a vis load noise, but many a TT have a very high mass platter with no transmission of noise.

With 3 copper mats totalling 12 pounds + the 3 pound regular platter, their is no noise whatsoever & no perceive added friction on my TT, as the platter turns quite freely with the Mike New bearing.

So, with only using the Mike New 11.5 pound platter, even with one added copper mat, their should be no problem since its the same load or less that I am presently using.

In any case, as people acquire the new heavy platter from Mike, we will eventually get more feedback opinions.

Yves