The Logitech Touch Experience

[Ali Tait]

Hi Ali,



Lol - that can actually be a good thing, you know!

Many turntables (mostly of the low-mass belt-drive variety) sound tubby and coloured as hell... The Techie avoids the cloggy euphony many (wrongly in my view) deem as the recognised 'signature of analogue', by presenting a more accurate portrayal of the information that is actually on records.

Although how my Techie sounds these days is markedly different (way better) compared to when you first heard it at Owston.

Anyway, chaps, my apologies for the rather rude interruption - as you were!

Marco.

Didn't mean that in a bad way Marco,I thought your deck was very good,just sounded a little more digital-like in a clean way compared to say Will's slate 401-perhaps more clinical may be a better way to describe it.I wouldn't call Will's deck coloured though! I'm crap at explaining what I hear,but I would call Will's deck more analogue sounding than yours,yet I wouldn't call either coloured-it's difficult to describe,though I'd say Will's deck draws me in,in a way the Techie didn't at the time,on first hearing,though that's down to the rest of his system too. What I meant is that though these hi-rez are clean sounding in the way your deck is,kind of like good cd is,they sound more analogue than digital,at least to my ears on my system.With hi rez files,I don't think anything can come near a streamer like the Touch for the money,certainly no cd player.

[alfie2902]

Yes they do,for a couple of seconds,and the Touch says it is buffering.It's fine if I just let the album play,but pauses if I skip tracks.

I have to say how good I find these hi-rez files though.My first impression was how vinyl-like they sound,very like I remember Marco's Techie sounding at Owston when I heard it the first time (though I remember thinking at the time how cd-like the techie sounded!) The glare that is present in a lot of cd recordings is totally absent,and the very revealing statics readily show how much better these are than red book standard.There is a sense of ease about the sound like you get from a good vinyl deck,and resolution is amazing.The only downside is the size of the files,about 1.4 Gb per album,and that's a FLAC compressed file!

That seems to mirror my finding to Ali! The difference between Redbook & hi-rez is quite large & I also find hi-rez files to sound more like vinyl than an higher resolution redbook as i was expecting!

My PC > E-Mu 0404 > ADM system shows these differnces very nicely, but I also did these tests with a ModWright Transporter which sounded simply devine & with the hi-rez very like a nice vinyl set-up!

Ali, Do you use your touch into the AN Dac? This is where my interest lies, I fancy buying a touch & using it into my AN Dac (when it arrives) & hopefully getting a sound close to the ModWright! Once sorted I'll listen to the Touch/AN Dac against Marks ModWright & see how they compare.

[Ali Tait]

I haven't had a Transporter in my system,but yes,I'm using the Touch with my AN Zero dac,which is a very good combination.A few folk reckon the Touch with a good dac is pretty close to the Transporter,and for a lot less.I will probably change the dac for something diy though.Having heard Nick's Buffalo dac with 6n1p PP output stage into Sowter trannies,I think that's the way to go.A stunning sound,and would go well with the Touch I think.

It'll have to be good to beat the Modwright though.I've not heard one,but been told it's one of the best out there.

[Marco]

Didn't mean that in a bad way Marco,I thought your deck was very good,just sounded a little more digital-like in a clean way compared to say Will's slate 401-perhaps more clinical may be a better way to describe it.

Relax, dude - I was only yankin' ya chain

I also like Will's deck, and probably for the very same reasons you do

I also know *exactly* what you mean by this bit below, and agree, as I've heard the same thing myself:

What I meant is that though these hi-rez are clean sounding in the way your deck is,kind of like good cd is,they sound more analogue than digital,at least to my ears on my system.

Yes indeedy. There are valid reasons for it too

With hi rez files,I don't think anything can come near a streamer like the Touch for the money,certainly no cd player.

I know what you mean, but I think you might be surprised at just how close a *very* good CDP gets to the sound you describe.

Sadly, the days are gone when anything remotely affordable qualifying as such was available, and that's largely why, in terms of audio performance, streaming has taken over... To put it bluntly, 90% of CDPs today are pieces of plastic shit and (sometimes) make streaming sound better than it actually is!

I also suspect that the majority of people who've embraced streaming have never heard a truly great CDP (something massively over-engineered to do the job with almost no compromise).

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Aye,but I think you'd be talking about something like the new dcs or similar,and even then,they won't be able to play the 24/96 files if it's just a red book player,so I think no matter how expensive,it'll never match a 200 quid streamer playing a hi-rez file.You do need a good dac though!

[Marco]

Nope, DCS players are pish - I hate upsampling with a passion (all their players upsample), as to my ears it sounds artificial!

I'm primarily talking about high-end built-like-a-brick-shithouse, non-bollocks'd about with, classic CDPs produced in the heyday of CD (1989-1995), or thereabouts, such as my Sony and other players of its ilk

Marco.

[alfie2902]

I haven't had a Transporter in my system,but yes,I'm using the Touch with my AN Zero dac,which is a very good combination.A few folk reckon the Touch with a good dac is pretty close to the Transporter,and for a lot less.I will probably change the dac for something diy though.Having heard Nick's Buffalo dac with 6n1p PP output stage into Sowter trannies,I think that's the way to go.A stunning sound,and would go well with the Touch I think.

It'll have to be good to beat the Modwright though.I've not heard one,but been told it's one of the best out there.

If the Touch/AN Dac can get somewhere close to the ModWright at about 1/5 of the price I would be very pleased indeed Ali. The ModWright is adout at the top of the streaming tree & I'm just trying to get close to it at a fraction of the price.

We A/B tested the ModWright against a Linn Akurate & there was very little difference in sound quality some people couldn't discern any difference at all. I'm also a big fan of the Weiss Dac & Mac mini route but alas both the ModWright & Weiss are out of my price range atm. The 6n1p dac sounds interesting though, you diy boys have all the fun

Marco,

As Ali says even the very best of Redbook CDPs whether classic early 90's CDP or one of todays better CDP (I really like the RA Opus 21) will always only be 16/44.1. If hi-rez files really take off that limitation won't be able to live with the better streamers!

That said if an Opus 21 comes up at the right price when I have a little more money in my hi-fi fund it would be mine!

[Ali Tait]

Nope, DCS players are pish - I hate upsampling with a passion (all their players upsample), as to my ears it sounds artificial!

I'm primarily talking about high-end built-like-a-brick-shithouse, non-bollocks'd about with, classic CDPs produced in the heyday of CD (1989-1995), or thereabouts, such as my Sony and other players of its ilk

Marco.

LOL I meant players in that price range! As for your Sony,good as it is,it can't play hi-rez files.I don't think any red book cd player,no matter how expensive,could match the Touch playing hi-rez files.It's not just the 24/96 though,it's excellent with cd too!

[Marco]

Hi Alfie,

As Ali says even the very best of Redbook CDPs whether classic early 90's CDP or one of todays better CDP (I really like the RA Opus 21) will always only be 16/44.1. If hi-rez files really take off that limitation won't be able to live with the better streamers!

The bit in bold though is the million dollar question... Exactly how much NEW real music (not audiophile tinkly-tinkly pap) is available as high-res downloads, compared to the same on CD?

For me, no matter how good high-res downloads sound, unless I can obtain the same quantity of choice of new music, as is available now on CD (and/or CD and vinyl together), then I'd simply not be interested! Choice seems rather limited at the moment, and I'm not convinced it's likely to get better to the degree I'd require to wholeheartedly embrace the format.

As for the audio performance aspect of high-res downloads, I can't really comment as I've yet to hear any reproduced through a genuinely top-notch system (something I could actually live with), so until then I'll reserve judgement.

However, what I will say is that I'm sceptical of an entity which may well start out as 'high-res', being diluted into something rather inferior, as it makes its way through the replay chain of (noisy, non-audiophile friendly) paraphernalia attached to the average computer streaming set-up, and its inherent sonic compromises.............

What use is there in sampling the finest claret after it’s been strained though a sweaty sock?

Marco.

[John]

Its very hard to find HD quality downloads to music I enjoy if this ever changes then I will certainly invest in this