Calling all SL-1200/1210 owners!

[Yomanze]

Found it difficult to think about how a strobe light would affect the platter rotation in any way :P I do notice that even KAB say disabling it 'could' make a difference or something along those lines.

I wonder, is it really worth sticking with the stock tonearm and modifying it, or will an SME 3009 bring something new and maybe in certain ways 'improved'? Does anyone know any subjective differences in their presentation?

[scoobs]

lol...are you're still thinking about that 3009 on ebay? I can't offer a comparison as I've never heard a 3009, maybe Marco can. If you're going to modify the stock arm, you're looking at least a re-wire with tonearm cable and decent rca's. and to get it to it's max potential you're also looking at the fluid damper, headshell and custom counterweight (you've got these last two already haven't you?)

On the other hand, you've got the 3009 that is 103 ready to go, apart from the SME mounting plate and subsequent internal butchery.

He's put another one on ebay now, bit cheaper too. As I understand it the 3009 was primarily designed for MM, and perhaps not ideal for your 103, but the one you've been looking at is rebuilt with the 103 in mind, and comes with a ready built / connected tonearm lead, and an SME fluid damper can be added if required. If I was in your shoes, I would go for the SME.

[Peter Stockwell]

Hi Peter.
If ... the price of a KAB with shippping & import tax being so close to french new stock, then it's simply a no brainer!

It does, of course depend on how much KAB magic is on the KAB sourced SL12nn.

The PSU is a major upgrade ...

The killer KAB upgrades without doubt are the arm re-wire and fluid damping, this what takes the 1200 into the big players league, a few additional tweaks to the arm (all covered in this thread) along with a decent platter mat are the icing on the cake.

Thanks for that info, I'll look over the thread some more. I can source a used SL12nn, but no real guarantee of what it's been doing, for €200-250, but I've seen a fine looking example for €370. New prices are from €550-650.

What I don't like about the KAB arm rewire is that it goes to either a din connector or RCAs, so there's a cable break. Or is it nowt to "tordre ma culotte" over ?

cheers

Peter

[Marco]

Just in from a busy day, chaps. Rest assured though, I shall answer all the queries here in detail tomorrow

Marco.

[Peter Stockwell]

...but I've seen a fine looking example for €370.

3 months old and with two cartridges (DJ) I can sell on. It's mine , although I think the missus maybe !

[Marco]

Marco - where did you get the Cardas leads from?

Hi Ray,

The ones that Richard is currently using I got from KAB USA. They're listed on the website.

By the way, I have three of those Zu headshells. One has a Dynavector 20Vx and one has a Denon 304. The third one is currently empty, but there is a AT 33PTG on it's way from Japan to join it. Oh the joy of interchangeable headshells!

Too right! Nice selection of cartridges, btw. I'll be adding an EMT XSD-15 to my collection soon, but that comes already fitted in its own headshell. Later on down the line I also plan to get an SPU.

Still plan to try a 103pro, but I think I have enough to be getting on with for the time being!

Just a bit! You'll love the 103Pro, and it will have a different sonic signature to your other cartridges, but make sure you use it with its proper step-up transformer, or an A23, otherwise you won't get the best from it.

Marco.

[Marco]

Anyone tried the Zu DL103?

Hi Yomanze,

Yes, and it's very good. I would say it's a cross between a 103Pro and a DL-304, in that it has the sheer 'balls' synonymous of all the 103 variants but also the midrange finesse and detail retrieval of the 304 - looks the biz, too! I seriously considered getting one but decided that I already had enough 103s, having bought the standard model, the 103R and 103Pro.

Marco.

[Marco]

Had been lusting after an SP10 mk2, but I think that's a road to ruination, even if the results may well be worth it. I'm sure I'll find out for myself, but anyone care to qualify the differences between an unmodified SL1200/SL1210 and a Garrard 401 ?

Hi Peter,

I'm familiar with all three decks. If a near mint SP10 MK2 came on the market in a decent plinth, and you could guarantee its history, this in my opinion would be the best of the three decks. The problem is most of them have been used and abused in radio stations or broadcast studios and there are a number of components that are irreplaceable if or when they go pop. This is why I decided to go instead for a fully KAB-modified SL-1210.

It is simply a much safer option, and crucially, there isn't much in it in terms of sound quality when compared to an SP10, providing all else is equal in terms of arm, cartridge, etc. The SP10's motor unit has more torque, which gives it a marginally more solid sound with a little more bass drive, but that's it, and that's providing everything is in full working order which often isn't the case with vintage T/Ts like SP10s.

The reason why SP10s have such a reputation is because they were highly specialised products in their day with a price tag to match (although still very much the poor relations compared to EMTs and suchlike), and somewhat significantly, didn't get used in clubs as 'DJ decks' in the way of the SL-1200/1210. As a result they were always highly respected by the audiophile fraternity, and this continues today, whilst the SL-1200/1210 is often treated as a second-class citizen when in reality this is far from the case.

A Garrard 401 in comparison to both Technics decks will be fuller in the bass, but also softer and more 'lumpy' sounding, too, and somewhat veiled in the upper frequencies. I like idler drive decks and the 401 is an excellent example, but in my view both the SL-1200/1210 when modified and the SP10 have a much tighter, 'grippier', and overall more neutral sound than the 401. It's not neutral as in boring or overly analytical - basically the motor units have little character of their own and simply reproduce what is on the record as told by the partnering arm and cartridge.

Hopefully that should help. If there is anything you would like me to expand on feel free to ask

Marco.

[Marco]

Ok, me again.

Just looked at the KAB site. I also looked at the current USD/€ exchange rate. I could get a KAB SL1200 including import duties for almost the same price as a new SL1210 here!

I'm thinking that the power supply and the strobe dissabler are must haves, what else is worth going for ?

Yep, the PSU is an absolute must as it makes a huge difference to the deck's performance. The strobe disabler is worthwhile having, although I've never had the opportunity to compare with and without on my deck. I chose it simply because it made sense as many of these types of light chuck noise into the circuit.

What are you doing about the arm - are you going to keep the stock one and have it modified or will you be replacing it? I can advise on this if you wish and it will also have a bearing on what other KAB mods are worth going for.

Another essential modification, but it's got nothing to do with KAB, is buying a good mat (or mats). The standard rubber one is quite dreadful and simply serves to muddy the sound. You need something which both provides an ideal interface with the record and also completely dampens the ringing in the platter. In my opinion, having tried virtually every mat on the planet, the best combination without a shadow of a doubt is an SDS Isoplatmat in conjunction with a Funk Firm Achromat. You need to use both at the same time for maximum effect and performance.

Apart from that follow the advice from Scoobs and others.

Marco.

[Peter Stockwell]

Hi Peter,
A Garrard 401 in comparison to both Technics decks will be fuller in the bass, but also softer and more 'lumpy' sounding, too, and somewhat veiled in the upper frequencies. I like idler drive decks and the 401 is an excellent example, but in my view both the SL-1200/1210 when modified and the SP10 have a much tighter, 'grippier', and overall more neutral sound than the 401. It's not neutral as in boring or overly analytical - basically the motor units have little character of their own and simply reproduce what is on the record as told by the partnering arm and cartridge.

Well the missus didn't anywhere near as much as I thought she might, so tomorrow I'm going to pick up the black beauty. I'll need a starter cartridge for it, AT95E or should I push the boat out and get something better ?

To be honest I'd like to get it running asap, but don't want to go to the trouble of pulling the Grado of the 401. I could, I suppose get a cheap grado and just flip the stylus assemble over for comparisons, hadn't thunk of that. I fear however that the stock mat/platter config of the SL1210 will be to dark to be a good match with a Grado.

I'll ultimately have to choose between the two decks (401/1210), and I've had the 401 10 years now!

cheers

Peter