PC+Caiman DAC = Clicking noise at right channel output

[sum1]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone here use their beresford dac primarily with a computer.
If so do you happen to encounter a clicking noise problem that pops up ONLY on the right channel out? The noise is especially evident on a 24/96 file.
Any M2tech hiface user using it with the caiman??

Currently i got this problem and i'm just curious if most people encounter this issue as well.

Basically with i've tried the following troubleshooting steps:

1.CD Player -> Caiman = Works fine with no clicking sound
2.PC USB -> Caiman USB = It regularly made a clicking sound
3.Laptop inbuilt soundcard Toslink -> Caiman = Still made clicking sound but its better than USB
4.Changing interconnect cable = Made no difference to the clicking problem
5.Changing Opamp = Made no difference to the clicking problem
6. 16 bit vs 24 bit foobar output settings on applicable output such laptop toslink= 16 bit output definitely reduces the clicking but its still there nonetheless. Strangely i think not only it reduces the frequency it also reduces the volume of the clicking noise.

I've asked Stan and he answered that it was "the 'end of track' mute command from the PC USB data command. The reason it seems to come only from the right side is because it is not a stereo signal, but just a set of bits. So the DAC decodes it as an unknown audio signal.
Some people have somehow managed to disble their PC from transmiting the mute command by setting the volume control bar in Windows to less than MAX. Why it works for them is a mystery, but is worth trying."

Unfortunately changing the volume as suggested by Stan made no difference for me so then i've tried some more stuff to diagnose this:

1.Laptop Creative XtremeAudio soundcard Toslink -> caiman = It Works fine even with 24/96 playback with no clicking sound but the SQ is not as good due to creative driver possibly adding some resampling or sound effects.
2.PC M2Tech Hiface -> caiman = very weird... this one IMO give a cleaner SQ but somehow the clicking noise is the worst with this connection

I would appreciate it if any regular PC+caiman users here can share their experience with me as i am quite puzzled at how picky the Caiman can be when paired with a computer transport

[Stratmangler]

I primarily use my Caiman with a Squeezebox SB3.
I do on occasion use my laptop as source via the USB port.
I use Foobar2000 v1.1 , and I do not have any clicking problems on the right channel.
This is with 16/44.1 files and also 24/44.1 files.
I occasionally access Spotify on the laptop, again feeding the Caiman via USB, and again experience no problems.

[Marc B]

could be a change of sample/bit rates within the computer. Turn off the upsampling within the computer and make sure it's set to 16 bit / 44khz (usually on the audio device properties) Disable all the funny surround formats too.

Also , have you tried the following ... (stuff I used to do when setting a PC up as a DAW)

Change your pc to run background services (its in control panel, system properties on one of the tabs)

Mute any unused gubbins within the software mixer.. this goes for mic inputs, cd inputs , compressors, EQs, surround sound stuff etc.

Try kernal streaming, ASIO or WASAPI pluggins (depending on your windows version)

Try a shorter Foobar output latency (or a longer one)

Tick the "Give device exclusive control" boxes in the audio device properties.

Go to your harddrive settings in your device manager page and make sure they arent set to PIO (I think its DMA)

A few more tweeks for audio will pop into my head later and I'll add them to this,

try them for now and report back.

[dave2010]

sum1

Is the clicking noise actually on the right channel, or is it from the DAC itself?

My Caiman definitely makes clicking noises, sometimes quite a number, which is something to do with micro switches inside the unit. I'm not sure what triggers the switching - but I'm not sure that it actually causes a problem with the audio. If by any chance your DAC is on the RHS of your room, you may think the sounds are coming from your speakers.

In my case it hasn't yet bothered me enough, but if it does get that bad, I'd either do as you have done, seek advice, or alternatively sound proof the Caiman box in an enclosure. If this is a troublesome aspect of these DACs, then maybe we could ask Stan for a remedy.

You may of course have genuine clicks on the right hand channel signal. I can't say I've noticed any on mine, and that's using the USB input from the netbook I'm currently using to write this, while the DAC is replaying Sibelius.

[sum1]

Is the clicking noise actually on the right channel, or is it from the DAC itself?

The clicking noise i am talking about is from the right channel out and not the physical dac hardware. You would hear it from your speaker or headphone out of the dac.

I am aware of the dac muting circuit sound that comes out when you start/stop a music track but to me that one is not a problem.

could be a change of sample/bit rates within the computer. Turn off the upsampling within the computer and make sure it's set to 16 bit / 44khz (usually on the audio device properties) Disable all the funny surround formats too.

Also , have you tried the following ... (stuff I used to do when setting a PC up as a DAW)

Change your pc to run background services (its in control panel, system properties on one of the tabs)

Mute any unused gubbins within the software mixer.. this goes for mic inputs, cd inputs , compressors, EQs, surround sound stuff etc.

Try kernal streaming, ASIO or WASAPI pluggins (depending on your windows version)

Try a shorter Foobar output latency (or a longer one)

Tick the "Give device exclusive control" boxes in the audio device properties.

Go to your harddrive settings in your device manager page and make sure they arent set to PIO (I think its DMA)

A few more tweeks for audio will pop into my head later and I'll add them to this,

try them for now and report back.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried all the suggestions that you listed but unfortunately it made no difference. I usually use WASAPI but i've tried KS and ASIO4All as well and they dont seem to make a difference. So far i've tried the caiman with 2 laptop and 1 desktop and all of them produce this clicking noise

Regards,
Sonny

[Marc B]

you haven't got fade ins/outs turned on have you ? or your windows sounds turned on ?

I'm thinking that the switch of sample rates as it jumps from Foobar back to windows is causing it somehow?

I'd be thinking of sending it back by now to be honest, I had a Caiman for a few days to play with and used it via usb with foobar. I had no clicks at all.

[sauhirt]

I use Caiman only with pc, right now throuhg coax, but I've tried all 3 inputs and no clicking noise, no matter if it was USB, optical or coax. I think the problem is somewhere in your settings, not in Caiman. But I have definitely no idea how to solve it, it was very exhausting and difficult to set everything to my happiness. Windows quite sucks in this. You change one tiny thing and everything is destroyed and you can start right from the beginning.

[Themis]

Hi Sonny,

perhaps you could try with another Caiman to be sure where the problem comes from. There's no-one living near you having one ?

[dave2010]

Sonny

I've really not noticed any problems such as you describe and I've used my Caiman quite a lot via the USB+PC. However, I haven't tried high resolution files, with 24/96 characteristics. Maybe I should try to find some and see what happens.

[dave2010]

PS: Sonny

I checked the specification ** of the Caiman, and found the following:

"The USB input supports 32, 44.1, and 48 kHz sample rates. Maximum word length is 16-bits."

That could indicate possible problems with USB if you try feeding 24/96 or similar data via that link.

However, I also note that you still have the problems with other inputs, so you're not out of the woods yet.

Good luck.

** http://www.beresford.me/Downloads/Ca...nual_Rev_3.pdf