* Why Technics? *

[Light Capture]

I really like the Technics SL-1200,1600,1800 (all mkII) turntables (the 1700 has a lighter platter). They seem like an unbeatable TT for the price. I have a question of inquisitiveness, and hope not to offend anyone with what is probably a reoccurring Technics theme, as I'm a new member.

In the USA they are considered fine products for the money, but not all that popular w/ audiophiles, probably because DJ'ers have adopted them as their own. But, in the UK these TTs seem very desirable, and I see a lot of postings on the 1200mkII. Is it because of the PRaT and pitch accuracy that a good DD turntable produces, or are their other reasons?

I have the modest Technics SL-D2 and want to upgrade to a better Technics because that is what my budget will hopefully allow.

Thanx

[DSJR]

Leaving the current models aside for now, the Techie direct drives of the 70's were highly though of for their performance i.e. W&F, slowing under load and absolute rumble figures. The thing is, until 1975 or so, their decks fed back badly, howling all over the place if within a couple of metres of the speakers, which themselves were a bit boomy I suspect..

The SL110 and 120 were awful for feedback, but I suspect modern feet and loading the plinth innards would transform them. The mk1 1300/1400 and 1500/150 were similar, but I suspect that sorbothane sheeting on the base to bypass the tiny foot inserts and careful siting would transform them, together with a Herbies mat of the correct type for the deck.

The 1600/1700/1800 series had a sprung sub-chassis/bottom tray. Not like the softly bouncing Thorens/Linn/AR variety, but spring decoupled nonetheless, which vastly improved the performance IMO. The Dynavector 20A and 10X sounded swell in the supplied arms too and one of these with modern mat and headshell would make a great cheap deck. the Timestep can be modified to work with the non quartz motor units too, according to Dave C and torque, load instability and speed accuracy isn't at all a problem, the strobe light on my SL150 going all over the place yet the deck's speed is correct according to my Linn strobe which is battery powered at 300Hz....

So far so good. There was also an SL1350/1450 and 1550 IIRC, but they were short lived and we never saw them as they weren't replaced once the shipment was sold out.

The next series was the true ancestor of the current quartz-locked drive system. The 1300/1400 and 1500mk2 had radically different styling, the strobe now going internal driven by a frequency locked light source. The platters were plain like the SP10 and ours had nice rosewood effect trimming around the plinth bases. The arms had height adjustment too BUT, and it's a huge BUT, the nylon cueing collar which fits round the underside of the arm pillar breaks and cannot be replaced at present I understand. This means that the auto ones will just skate the stylus over the record instead of lifting the arm clear (I think the auto mech can be "switched off" and of course the cueing lever won't work either. If Technics could be a*sed to re-make this part it would be a PITA to fit 'cos of the dismantling needed, but would guarantee a higher resale price for this generation of decks.

By the late 70's, dealers like us were really into the fruitbox and Thorens and Rega at a lower price. The Techie direct drives (with the exception of the SP10/SL1000) and all their competition were regarded as devil's work and all but forgotten in the UK at any rate, much falsehood being thrown against them by ignorant Space-Cadets in Linn shops..

Fortunately, the exploding club market took the SL1200 mk2 to their hearts and we can now enjoy it. The arm has lower mass than earlier ones as far as I can see, but for non-critical DJ use, it's not a problem. Suitably shelled and with a counterweight sleeve sometimes available, the arm can be tweaked (KAB bits too), but the jelco's are very reasonably priced and for an extra £500 I'd go with a 750D, plate and cable and lift the deck totally. You then have all the other things as well.............

Hope this helps.

[MartinT]

Above all, that motor is a galactic class piece of engineering. After all our arm mods, bearing upgrades, isolation etc. etc. it's the motor that's left doing its wonderful thing. When we're all finished with our upgrades, that motor will remain as the only original item. Fabulous!

[Dave Cawley]

Actually the USA regards the SL-1200 quite highly, read http://www.soundhifi.com/images/Tone%20SL-1200.pdf

Regards

Dave

[Light Capture]

Actually the USA regards the SL-1200 quite highly, read http://www.soundhifi.com/images/Tone%20SL-1200.pdf

Regards

Dave

Let me rephrase it. The Tech 12xx is highly regarded, but many of our audiophiles are too snobby to own it, not esoteric enough looking. I would be happy to own one.

[Dave Cawley]

Not true, see my sales ledger!!

Dave

[Haselsh1]

Since 1977 I have owned many different types of turntable all of which have been of the orangebox type of construction. Last year I bought a Technics SL1210 MkII and I'm using it as a standard unit. The first thing that struck me about this turntable was the astonishing amount of subtle detail noticeable. I am using an Ortofon OM30 Super moving magnet into a suitable valve phono stage and the level of detail is truly amazing. On this basis alone, that's 'Why Technics'

[Hypnotoad]

The SL1200 Mk 2 is either a love hate thing, it's like the East Coast, West Coast thing with speakers.

People either love them or hate them, there have been so many threads on AK about this and the two different camps are always at odds with each other.

Some regard it as a very "dark" sounding table, the sound is trying to get out but can't.

Once upgraded it is a different thing altogether, like comparing a race car to the original it started off as.

I think you have to balance the cost of upgrading against the end product. If you think that level of performance is good for the cost go for it. If you are a tweaker and have fun doing it go for it.

I would have upgraded mine but came across a very nice table for less than half the price of new which would be a quarter of the cost of upgrading so it was a no brainer.

Now there are those that argue that the upgraded Techie would outperform anything on the market. Maybe so but at what cost, there is a point of diminishing returns. You can put a SME Series IV arm and a Ortofon A90 cart on one if you have that kind of cash lying around.

If you want a table that has rock solid speed, will last a long time, works like clock work and can be upgraded at your own pace it's probably going to be at the top of your list.

[Haselsh1]

Since 1977 I have owned many different types of turntable all of which have been of the orangebox type of construction. Last year I bought a Technics SL1210 MkII and I'm using it as a standard unit. The first thing that struck me about this turntable was the astonishing amount of subtle detail noticeable. I am using an Ortofon OM30 Super moving magnet into a suitable valve phono stage and the level of detail is truly amazing. On this basis alone, that's 'Why Technics'

I have to balance what I said with the fact that if I had 3k lying around I would very definitely buy a VPI Scoutmaster II and an Ortofon Rohmann cartridge. I don't have 3k and probably will never have 3k so for me, it's an SL1210 MkII.

[DSJR]

But would the VPI Scoutmaster actually out-perform the Techie in fidelity? maybe not as much as you think.

So much "advanced" HiFi isn't advanced at all IMO. It's merely "bling-fi" with a hugely over-inflated price tag designed to be a mugs eyeful. the technics 1200 visual design has been with us for around 40 years and you can relate directly back to the 1970 SL 1200. That and the current "Rega" cost of the standard model tends to put audiophools off. Fine by me, as these audiophools bought the LP12 in the 70's because it was the "in" thing to have rather than anything else and they soon moved on the the "Orrible Oracle" (it was in it's very early incarnations) 'cos it was more expensive and looked more flashy.. And so it goes on.

I still think a suitably plinthed SP10 is a fantastic deck and because of the wider arm choice on a large plinth (a 1200 looks dreadful with a hole where the arm should go) I'd be delighted with one of these as an alternative to the amazing NAS Dias, which doesn't appear to have a sound at all.