The Coffeehouse.... Baristi, Barista, Bariste

[Marco]

That is not going to happen, as the one pictured was almost the last of the Brazilian beans I bought locally.
I am now on to something else, and the Crema will be different.

Yeah I think that's part of it, Kev. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure your coffee tastes fab!

Marco.

[Marco]

I'm going to post a picture of my first coffee of the day tomorrow

This I think is a good example (I didn't pull it by the way).

Yeah, that's spot on

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Lol - I don't get any crema, daftee, as I'm using a Moka pot. I'm judging between yours and Grant's, oh and also the 1000s of espressos I've had all over Europe so far, which have always had yellowy-orange cremas

Yes, there's some brown in them too, but not muddy like yours - sorry... I'm sure it tastes great though, which is all that matters. Plus, it might also be down to the beans you're using

MArco.

I have a Bialetti stove top coffee pot but although these are good at making coffee the coffee they produce is way too strong. Ultimately a proper 9 -10bar coffee machine is better as the pressure is needed to extract the crema. A lot of coffee machines are up tp 15 bar pressure which is a bit too much for expresso. I was trained at Costa HQ and interestingly I had to calibrate the coffee grinder to get the exact grind size in order to get the flow rate correct on the coffee machine to deliver a given amount of expresso in a certain time.

Coffee grind size is very important to the flavour and quality of expresso produced on any machine as it determines flow rate and ultimately crema. Crema again is determined by machine water pressure through the coffee. Crema is also affected by the bean quality, type and roasting process. When you start factoring in all the technical aspects of coffee there is way more than the general public can imagine.

My special area of interest however as a technologist is Cocoa. This is just as infinite in variability and quality as coffee and has a very interesting process which also determines colour and flavour and is quite complex. I have a warehouse downstairs where I work which has about 50 X 25Kg sacks of different cocoas all of which are very different.

Coffee maybe even more varied and when you take into account variety, natural variation of coffee type, process, manufacture and then actual making coffee through a machine it is infinite.

Interestingly there was an assessment of coffee machines made recently. The best is a barista type machine followed by bean to cup machines and Nespresso style machines. Finally Filter coffee systems and Stove top pots came last in the quality of coffee produced.

Instant coffee was not really classed as acceptable.

[Tim]

When you start factoring in all the technical aspects of coffee there is way more than the general public can imagine.

You got that right for sure, trying to get the same cup everyday can be quite a challenge - even with scales, good grinders and thermometers! Good coffee is both art and science.

Personally I (and many others) rate a Technivorm Moccamaster ahead of any Nespresso type machine, unless you just mean trying to produce an espresso type shot from a home machine, as it can't do that.

I do find a Moka pot too bold flavour wise and haven't used one for quite a few years, but I don't drink my coffee with milk. If you add frothed milk and like it bold, I think a Moka pot is pretty good at what it does, costs nothing, it's simple and lasts for ever. I'd take that over any Nespresso maker and as you say, instant coffee just isn't acceptable

[struth]

if you get the milk even half right and decent extraction on a double shot then a large latte etc will give you a good drink with a decent hit. Biggest issue with milk is starting with it cold enough then introducing enough air but not too much, and if its cold enough you get enough time to make the silky stuff before you burn it flavour wise.
Shots are temp and grind... a good pid will sort the temp, while the grind will always depend on machine and how you tamp.
Allso cleaning everything every day and warming the head etc should be done before starting. every bean type will grind different too, just to add complexity
its harder than setting up a ortofon black

[Tim]

One thing I do know about coffee is the more I explore and learn, the more I realise how little I know.

An interesting insight into what lengths a pro goes to before serving espresso - Tim Wendelboe is a past World Barista Champion.

[Jimbo]

You got that right for sure, trying to get the same cup everyday can be quite a challenge - even with scales, good grinders and thermometers! Good coffee is both art and science.

Personally I (and many others) rate a Technivorm Moccamaster ahead of any Nespresso type machine, unless you just mean trying to produce an espresso type shot from a home machine, as it can't do that.

I do find a Moka pot too bold flavour wise and haven't used one for quite a few years, but I don't drink my coffee with milk. If you add frothed milk and like it bold, I think a Moka pot is pretty good at what it does, costs nothing, it's simple and lasts for ever. I'd take that over any Nespresso maker and as you say, instant coffee just isn't acceptable

Yes there are better machines than the Nespresso, although I read somewhere 500 top restaurants use them for their expresso coffee! Pod coffee is very restricted too the quality and throw of coffee used. Barista machine way better but like you said Tim factoring in all the variables its a bit of an art. A good Barista who makes the stuff day in day out really knows his stuff.

Milk foaming is such an art to produce just the right bubble size. Milk is generally heated to 140o F in the coffee shops to ensure the coffee is not overheated. The art of foaming milk is tricky but all the coffee shops generally use full fat milk or higher which helps a great deal to produce milk foam. I was trained by a beautiful Italian lady barista to foam milk. The steam nozzle should be just below the top of the milk in metal jug tilted at an angle. The milk should not only froth but move in a circular motion around the jug. Knowing when to stop is easy if you have a thermometer but a good barista knows exactly by look and feel.

[Jimbo]

if you get the milk even half right and decent extraction on a double shot then a large latte etc will give you a good drink with a decent hit. Biggest issue with milk is starting with it cold enough then introducing enough air but not too much, and if its cold enough you get enough time to make the silky stuff before you burn it flavour wise.
Shots are temp and grind... a good pid will sort the temp, while the grind will always depend on machine and how you tamp.
Allso cleaning everything every day and warming the head etc should be done before starting. every bean type will grind different too, just to add complexity
its harder than setting up a ortofon black

One of the tricks on a barista machine is to leave the group heads on the machine one you have made the coffee. This keeps the machine at the best temperature. You will know when the coffee is at the right grind when the flow looks like a mouses tail!

Setting up a 2M black is way easier!

[struth]

One of the tricks on a barista machine is to leave the group heads on the machine one you have made the coffee. This keeps the machine at the best temperature. You will know when the coffee is at the right grind when the flow looks like a mouses tail!

Setting up a 2M black is way easier!

mouses tail lol i like that... i usually think of honey in summertime

[Marco]

I do find a Moka pot too bold flavour wise and haven't used one for quite a few years, but I don't drink my coffee with milk. If you add frothed milk and like it bold, I think a Moka pot is pretty good at what it does, costs nothing, it's simple and lasts for ever. I'd take that over any Nespresso maker and as you say, instant coffee just isn't acceptable

Lol, now you see that comment, along with Jim's above, proves exactly what I said earlier about the tendency in coffee shops here to serve espresso weaker (than Italians would drink it), to cater for the British palate!

Fundamentally, Moka pots do not make coffee that is "way too strong", unless your idea of such doesn't match that of 100s of thousands of Italians, who've been using them to make coffee for nearly a century!!

Moka pots, at least the way I've been using them, produce just the right strength of coffee, replicated by a professional machine, without the crema (due to the lack of pressure in comparison), i.e. if you took an espresso of the strength typically served in coffee shops in Italy, and scooped off the crema, the liquid that's left is pretty much what a Moka pot makes, although slightly thicker.

So if you guys find the flavour "too bold" or "way too strong", then blame your unsophisticated palates, not the Moka pot!

Unless you're trying to say that generations of Italians, who invented them and have been using them for decades, are wrong...? Trust me, they'd laugh at you if you told them that!

Marco.