Why do you need a speaker crossover - discuss

[Beobloke]

During the 1970’s I used Eagle FR8 full-range drive units loaded with sewer pipes,

I'm surprised they didn't sound a bit sh*t.

Sorry, I couldn't resist......

[Ali Tait]

So you have got a couple of thousand volts on your speaker cables Do you have any children or pets?

Actually always thought this was an interesting idea. Seemed daft to me to electrically to step down just for a set of cables and then step up again. But I would have built the amps in the speaker chassis because that is one hell of a voltage to be flying around the room on cables.

Yes, though of course high-voltage cable that is easily capable of carrying the voltage safely will be used. The amps will be located next to the speakers so the cable runs are as short as possible. The amps will also have safety interlocks that will shut them down in the event of any problems, of if a speaker cable comes adrift.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Yes, though of course high-voltage cable that is easily capable of carrying the voltage safely will be used. The amps will be located next to the speakers so the cable runs are as short as possible. The amps will also have safety interlocks that will shut them down in the event of any problems, of if a speaker cable comes adrift.

Explain safety interlocks (in this context) to me.

[nat8808]

It just doesn't sink it does it you could say *exactly* the same things if I was singing the praises of crossovers instead of the reverse. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, there is no other way. What you want is an argument and you are looking for fuel for it. Words are the fuel as you can twist them into what ever you like.

I have never once said you or anyone else would wet themselves over these speaker, they and you can please their bloody self. I am happy and I am singing that happiness and explaining why I think lack of crossover has been part of causing this. And as the thread title says exploring what other *constructive* people are adding to the data pile. The messers and dissers can just go and play with themselves. The usual parties queue up to disrupt, I have almost got use to it.

Oh for god's sake.. I precisely DONT want an arguement!

I am trying to put some ideas accross about the discussion itself, reflective ideas about the rights and wrongs of things.

I don't think there are absolute rights and wrongs as you are expressing, only different ways of doing things and getting different results - some will appeal to some and some will appeal to others.

Look at the title of YOUR thread "Why do you need a speaker cross-over - DISCUSS".

I think a more honest title thread, going purely on what has been written so far would have been "I believe cross-overs compensate for lazy driver design - line up with your objections and I'll try to shoot you down (and I'll praise all who agree with me)"

You're not up for discussion at all, only to shout about your own views with a trump card of "you have to experience it, not talk about it" as a last resort.

At least that is how you come across to me in this thread (I predict a response of "I'm not here to please you!").

The usual parties queue up to disrupt, I have almost got use to it.

If the same things keep happening, get the same responses from different people - bearing in mind I've never joined in in one of your 'discussions' before - then perhaps it is something you are doing that causes this response?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Oh for god's sake.. I precisely DONT want an arguement!

I am trying to put some ideas accross about the discussion itself, reflective ideas about the rights and wrongs of things.

I don't think there are absolute rights and wrongs as you are expressing, only different ways of doing things and getting different results - some will appeal to some and some will appeal to others.

Look at the title of YOUR thread "Why do you need a speaker cross-over - DISCUSS".

I think a more honest title thread, going purely on what has been written so far would have been "I believe cross-overs compensate for lazy driver design - line up with your objections and I'll try to shoot you down (and I'll praise all who agree with me)"

You're not up for discussion at all, only to shout about your own views with a trump card of "you have to experience it, not talk about it" as a last resort.

At least that is how you come across to me in this thread (I predict a response of "I'm not here to please you!").



If the same things keep happening, get the same responses from different people - bearing in mind I've never joined in in one of your 'discussions' before - then perhaps it is something you are doing that causes this response?

I keep answering, but you just keep repeating yourself, so what other conclusion can I make.

[nat8808]

I understand common sense, and also recognise someone trying to pick a fight, so I will go back to ignoring you.

Maybe not.. maybe you take someone with a differing point of view as someone picking a fight?

I'll stop the character assessments now.

Remember Richard, these are just words and you really have to EXPERIENCE the people behind them to truely understand whether people are picking fights or not as it's in the body language not the words..

Just assume that we're not and take it all as points of discussion.

[nat8808]

I keep answering, but you just keep repeating yourself, so what other conclusion can I make.

I was answering in order of your posts.. so no, you hadn't answered at that point but only complained about messers and desenters instead.

[nat8808]

If you don't do it correctly and you are not listening to the process. But just the fact of altering the mechanics of a drive unit doesn't damage anything where as putting something extra in the signal path correctly or incorrectly does.

You say that putting components in front of the drivers do damage the sound but altering the mechanics of the driver doesn't damage the sound.

Are you saying that when you alter the mechanics you never hear a difference in the music other than the change in bandwidth and frequency roll off? No aspect of the sound is impared when changing these mechanics?

And does this apply to any component, no matter of it's 'quality' or type or construction? And what kind of mechanical adjustments are you making that don't damage the sound? Doping, cone materials (if cones), magnets, surround types, coils, re-inforcement etc etc?

Won't changing the doping for example change things like the impulse characteristics of the cone and so change its response time and ability to respond to quick changes in direction etc?

That was a genuine question!

[lurcher]

Maybe not.. maybe you take someone with a differing point of view as someone picking a fight?

I'll stop the character assessments now.

Remember Richard, these are just words and you really have to EXPERIENCE the people behind them to truely understand whether people are picking fights or not as it's in the body language not the words..

Just assume that we're not and take it all as points of discussion.

In every case, I wasn't. I was just trying to make the point to him that a simplistic "less is more" set of choices is not always optimal. My example, was just demonstrating the effect of his pronouncement taken to its logical conclusion, and hence showing how while its presented as a absolute in realty it can only be applied with caution, so is meaningless as the absolute he was trying to suggest it was.

As a more complex but equally valid example of why the absense of something is not always the best solution take a simple two stage valve amplifier. If we decide that capacitors are evil, we remove them, and directly couple the two stages. But doing this means that the op points for the two valves then become compromised, and the net effect is to cause more problems than were solved by the removal of the component.

[Macca]

Anecdotal but I will go ahead anyway

I designed and built a pair of loudspeakers for a DJ pal of mine who was sick of blowing tweeters in budget bookshelf models trying to get a club sound in his large living room. To solve the tweeter issue I used Motorola piezo electric horns - no crossover needed as you cannot blow them.

The cabs were 3 quarter inch plywood, screwed and glued braced internally with pine batons. No wadding - I hate it more than anything it ruins speakers imho - the inside of the cab was lined with Deflex panels instead. Cab was about 60 litres, floorstanding with a port tuned 20-50 hz and an 8 inch kevlar bass/mid.

I was waiting for some custom inductors from Falcon Acoustics to turn up but we built the speakers anyway. The inductors took about another week and a half to arrive but when they did I went round to fit them retrospectively. My mate was not interested - 'they sound brilliant as they are I don't want to mess with them'

I had a demo with some high-octane dance music, they did indeed sound fine, it was not possible to hear the mid/bass breaking up even though on paper it should have been possible. Likewise there was no issue with level difference between the drivers even though spec wise there was (IIRC) a 6db difference in sensitivity. In a large room listening in the far field it simply did not matter in practice.