Why do you need a speaker crossover - discuss

[Paul Hynes]

Richard, Anthony,

I think we have much in common. You guys, like myself, are not mainstream in the audio industry. We are constantly looking to move our goalposts towards better music. If I didn’t live on the outer rim of the universe I would be pleased to get the beer in.

Anthony,

It’s been one busy year for various reasons and I do not get much time lately to join in the forum although I do keep an eye on how things are going from time to time. I’m going to have to get on with some work now so will catch up with this thread later.

Regards
Paul

[AlexM]

Richard,

The driver itself is very much in the signal path, so there can't really be a valid catch-all statement that a doped or mechanically controlled driver doesn't degrade the signal, but an electronic component will, or even whether one is better than the other without context.

I would also dispute that only single driver speakers are capable of a coherent presentation - that isn't my experience, but I'm sure others may perceive this differently.

Regards,
Alex

[nat8808]

Nope.

It is then only words. It is about music, so you have to experience it.

So how else does one communicate, have a discussion, especially on an internet forum?

Even if I/we were to stand infront of your speakers and you say music is playing, if we don't use words how would either of us know that each of us could hear anything let alone what we think it sounds like?

The speakers you've designed that promted the thread could lead people to believe that you DO need cross-overs because they sound god-dam terrible!

As I said before, it could be that the reason you think the use of cross-overs is a bad idea is ONLY because you like a particular sound, one that happily can be produced with drivers that don't need them.

There could be many aspects of sound that other people appreciate for which cross-overs are absolutely necessary.

Also it could be that you're correct but you don't seem to be up for discussing much, only shooting down anything that goes against your current assertion.

I'm currently using some Jordan JX92s speakers that sound ok and have some Mordaunt Short 442s that also don't have crossovers (or at least very minimal cross-overs) and some Epos ES14s. I've speakers that have quite complex cross-overs and others that are complex actives. They are all different and I prefer some to others for different flavours of sound - I really haven't experienced either or any type to be better overall, only each speaker individually more/less appealing in different areas.

Of course, I have my preferences, enjoy some aspects of sound more than others and so listen to the speakers that give me that more often.

For all we know, you could be coming from a position of being deaf from 10KHz upwards or maybe your sense of hearing generates smell experiences - unless we use words to describe our experiences, subjective talk just can't exist!

[anthonyTD]

Richard, Anthony,

I think we have much in common. You guys, like myself, are not mainstream in the audio industry. We are constantly looking to move our goalposts towards better music. If I didn’t live on the outer rim of the universe I would be pleased to get the beer in.

Anthony,

It’s been one busy year for various reasons and I do not get much time lately to join in the forum although I do keep an eye on how things are going from time to time. I’m going to have to get on with some work now so will catch up with this thread later.

Regards
Paul

[nat8808]

Do you accept that any component in the signal path will damage the music? If so by altering the selected driver mechanically to remove that component can only be a good thing - agreed?

Can the altering of the mechanics of the driver not damage the music also?

It may just be that the aspects this DOES damage are not aspects you appreciate..

This the point I've been trying to get at, long windedly!

It's also a genuine question for discussion, not just being contrarian.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Richard,

The driver itself is very much in the signal path, so there can't really be a valid catch-all statement that a doped or mechanically controlled driver doesn't degrade the signal, but an electronic component will, or even whether one is better than the other without context.

I would also dispute that only single driver speakers are capable of a coherent presentation - that isn't my experience, but I'm sure others may perceive this differently.

Regards,
Alex

1/ It is not a single driver I am talking about in my case it is a two way if you read the thread.
2/ At least one transducer is unavoidable, the same as you need speaker cables. To make a comment like made earlier in the thread that how can the system sound better without them (speaker cables) because it doesn't sound at all is puerile, which is why I didn't answer. Of course some thing are necessary, it is the unnecessary things (IMO) I am taking about. I say again the only thing better than the best component you can buy is no component at all. So Marco for example can go on improving the component quality on his crossover and spending a fortune on gold wired inductors etc without realising just taking the damn thing out of the circuit is better.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

So how else does one communicate, have a discussion, especially on an internet forum?

Even if I/we were to stand infront of your speakers and you say music is playing, if we don't use words how would either of us know that each of us could hear anything let alone what we think it sounds like?

The speakers you've designed that promted the thread could lead people to believe that you DO need cross-overs because they sound god-dam terrible!

As I said before, it could be that the reason you think the use of cross-overs is a bad idea is ONLY because you like a particular sound, one that happily can be produced with drivers that don't need them.

There could be many aspects of sound that other people appreciate for which cross-overs are absolutely necessary.

Also it could be that you're correct but you don't seem to be up for discussing much, only shooting down anything that goes against your current assertion.

I'm currently using some Jordan JX92s speakers that sound ok and have some Mordaunt Short 442s that also don't have crossovers (or at least very minimal cross-overs) and some Epos ES14s. I've speakers that have quite complex cross-overs and others that are complex actives. They are all different and I prefer some to others for different flavours of sound - I really haven't experienced either or any type to be better overall, only each speaker individually more/less appealing in different areas.

Of course, I have my preferences, enjoy some aspects of sound more than others and so listen to the speakers that give me that more often.

For all we know, you could be coming from a position of being deaf from 10KHz upwards or maybe your sense of hearing generates smell experiences - unless we use words to describe our experiences, subjective talk just can't exist!

It just doesn't sink it does it you could say *exactly* the same things if I was singing the praises of crossovers instead of the reverse. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, there is no other way. What you want is an argument and you are looking for fuel for it. Words are the fuel as you can twist them into what ever you like.

I have never once said you or anyone else would wet themselves over these speaker, they and you can please their bloody self. I am happy and I am singing that happiness and explaining why I think lack of crossover has been part of causing this. And as the thread title says exploring what other *constructive* people are adding to the data pile. The messers and dissers can just go and play with themselves. The usual parties queue up to disrupt, I have almost got use to it.

[lurcher]

To make a comment like made earlier in the thread that how can the system sound better without them (speaker cables) because it doesn't sound at all is puerile, which is why I didn't answer.

You rearly fundamentally dont understand logic do you.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Can the altering of the mechanics of the driver not damage the music also?

If you don't do it correctly and you are not listening to the process. But just the fact of altering the mechanics of a drive unit doesn't damage anything where as putting something extra in the signal path correctly or incorrectly does.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

You rearly fundamentally dont understand logic do you.

I understand common sense, and also recognise someone trying to pick a fight, so I will go back to ignoring you.