A Kind of Blue and a bit Mike New - Changing my top plate and bearing

This morning i have set about changing the top plate and the baring in my techie... i though it was going to be really difficult, but it was actually pretty easy.

i had the top bit blasted and sprayed by a local company who does a lot for my mates bmw motorsport company, the finish isn't perfect, but... it was free... i didn't even have to pay for the paint ... happy days!!

here is where i started

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010500.jpg

took off the platter and the plastic shield underneath

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010501.jpg

disconnected all the cables and undid all the screws

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010502.jpg

removed the old bearing and took out the pcb/motor - fitted the bearing

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010503.jpg

transferred and fitted it into blue top plate

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010504.jpg

that was the bit i was most concerned about done...

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010505.jpg

next i took the base off and removed the arm

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010506.jpg

i dont need this switch, it dont do squat since the time step was put in (cheers for the help with that bit hugo)

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010507.jpg

removed switch pcb and put it in to blue top bit

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010508.jpg

same for pitch fader and stylus light

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010510.jpg

fitted the arm

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010512.jpg

reassembled the rest of the tt

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010511.jpg

A kind of blue techie with mike new bearing complete

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010517.jpg

thank you for my a kind of blue 180g xmas pressie dan... this was its first play... it seemed remarkably appropriate!

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010518.jpg


so, how does it sound... well... very very nice!.. im thinking that the improvment in sound must be at least 95% blue top plate and 5% mike new ;)
i do think it really is a damn shame that the only bit of the mike new that is visible is that little bit a dark metal poking out the top... that really is a pretty amazing bit of kit... and its gold... it would match my oc9 really well!

in reality .. it does sound very good indeed, but its a brand new cart and brand new phono pre.. so im holding off babbling about it for now... im going to let it settle for a few weeks... i am so far though very very impressed


Thank you again Hugo for the deal we struck on the mike new... im very greateful and a very happy chappy

Looking good, Hamish (you're a very mad boy :eyebrows:)!

I'm surprised while you were down at Dave's you didn't get a new armplate, as the one you have at the moment was never intended to be the 'finished article'.

Failing that, I'd have been tempted to spray the arm plate you've got blue, the same as the top-plate, to hide it, as IMO the silver 'shouts' at you a bit against the blue of the top-plate and the black of the tonearm. That's just a small point though, dude....

Anyway, I'm glad things are sounding fab - the Mike New bearing will take quite a few hours to run-in, so when you're not listening to records, my advice would be to leave the platter spinning at 45 R.P.M, which will speed up the running-in process :cool:

Marco.

Dave seemed confident that the plate (previously martins) was up to the job and that it wouldn't be a problem...
I'm actually happy it is silver marco, it doesn't look as shouty in real life, it also matches the other silver bits of the deck and the silver bruil (when I get it back from jerry)

mad maybe, but I bloody love it... And I have a enormous sence of satisfaction, and even better, a much greater understanding of the inside of the techie... Which is exactly why I bought the techie in the first place... I wanted something to tinker with! ... I think I have achived that goal!

Outstanding.:cool:

What colour was the top plate before you had it sprayed?

Marco - I like the silver - it's like a chrome trim - and you can never have too much chrome trim:lol::lol:

It was 1210 gun metal grey, I bought a load of slightly dodgy bits of slightly nackerd techie of eBay as a little project for me and a mate to build him a tt everything there apart from arm and feet for £40 (I think, it wasn't much) ... The top bit was all coroded so I said I'd swap my good one for the coroded one and get it sprayed ... The rest as they say is history.
Since I have a mike new bearing now my old one is going to relace the really dirty one that came with the knackerd one, along with my old arm and feet.. My mate is gonna have all my hand me downs basically ...


I tell you what, that bearing is dam good, it's sounding sweet as a nut (I'm on my third listen of a kind of blue now... I should prob put something else on)

I'm glad it arrived safely. Clearly the Post Office's dire warnings about Icelandic volcanoes did not apply to the journey to Worcester!

Hehe, yes mate, no probs ... What a very odd thing for them to suggest, sorry I was going to email and say I'd got it... Forgot in all the exitement! ... What you think to the new look deck?

Can I ask about the whole SL1210 thing. I get the idea which is to buy a stock deck then upgrade it bit by bit as and when funds allow up to the point at which only the motor is left from the original.

My questions being - is the same motor used in any other (non-technics) TT?
If not, why? And why does someone not buy a supply of these motors and build a whole new deck from scratch starting with the motor? Apologies if I am missing something obvious.

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Originally Posted by hamish

Hehe, yes mate, no probs ... What a very odd thing for them to suggest, sorry I was going to email and say I'd got it... Forgot in all the exitement! ... What you think to the new look deck?

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Very smart! You might want to get the newer armplate, as Marco suggests, since this will allow the arm to go rather lower, and give a decent range of VTA adjustment.


Marco - the bearing is already run-in!

The vta apears perfect, still set from martin using it with his mike new and similar AT cart

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/cea924e2.jpg

What else advantages are there of the newer plate?

That looks fantastic...!!!

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Originally Posted by hamish

What else advantages are there of the newer plate?

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None that spring to mind.

Cheers shaun!

Hugo, it actually looks straighter in real life to ... I'm happy to stick with this one I think!
Il perhaps buy one if one comes up second hand at some point

I think it looks fabulous Hamish :clap:' well done and what a superb record player you have there now ! i would like to know more about what you think of the OC9 , once its run in:)

I think it looks great. Id love to do a piano black on my deck, like the mk5

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Originally Posted by chris@panteg

I think it looks fabulous Hamish :clap:' well done and what a superb record player you have there now ! i would like to know more about what you think of the OC9 , once its run in:)

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this ones a oc9 iii ... i previously had the oc9 that broke... this was an insurance replacemnt... i dont have much experience of carts to comment, but i think it sounds lovely

im most pleased with it all, cant see me doing anything to it for a while now i have to say..

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Originally Posted by Macca

Can I ask about the whole SL1210 thing. I get the idea which is to buy a stock deck then upgrade it bit by bit as and when funds allow up to the point at which only the motor is left from the original.

My questions being - is the same motor used in any other (non-technics) TT?
If not, why? And why does someone not buy a supply of these motors and build a whole new deck from scratch starting with the motor? Apologies if I am missing something obvious.

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I will answer you as others on here have "selective reading" abilities.

Some earlier Technics tables have the same or similar motor and platter.

You can also get an abused table with a good motor and do the same as they do.

I saw someone taking just a motor from one and building out of layers of plywood a whole new base.

You could just start with a motor and and speed controller and build a whole new deck like you said.

I had a SL1200 Mk2 and decided not to spend a fortune upgrading it and bought a very nice and slightly used table for half price (500 pound) and a quarter of what it would have cost me on upgrades for the Technics alone.

It would be interesting if someone came up with a better motor, then it wouldn't be a Technics at all.

Hi Hamish,

Blue is nice but you could have gone for this (attached)! Bling!!

Really , though, it looks quite good and colourful TT's always look more interesting. I think that people can be a little boring with there hifi me included. I used to have a bright red Pro-ject deck which looked much more interesting than what I have now.

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I will answer you as others on here have "selective reading" abilities.

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{Cough}... What's that supposed to mean, Phillip? ;)

Hi Hamish,

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What else advantages are there of the newer plate?

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I've actually analysed the effect of this separately when I had the plate you're using swapped for one of the ones Dave has specially made in Germany, and trust me it makes a difference, sonically.

I think the custom-made plates provide a more rigid fixing of the arm-base to the chassis, and this reduces resonance (and also I've found) acoustic feedback, the positive effects of which can easily be heard when playing music.

It's not a massive improvement, but certainly easily noticeable in a revealing system, and well worth having. I'm sure you could get a new plate fitted sometime later on - at the moment I would just enjoy what you have, which you seem to be doing rather well :cool:

Marco.

Hamish,

Nice job, I suspect that the pictures don't do it justice. I'd like a top like that in metallic black!

BTW, What's the PSU that you are using, and was it easy to fit the bearing ?

Thanks

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Nice job, I suspect that the pictures don't do it justice. I'd like a top like that in metallic black!

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Hi Peter,

Then buy a MK5G, which has precisely that! ;)

That's the reason I bought one in the first place, instead of the usual MK2 most others have :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Peter Stockwell

Hamish,

Nice job, I suspect that the pictures don't do it justice. I'd like a top like that in metallic black!

BTW, What's the PSU that you are using, and was it easy to fit the bearing ?

Thanks

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The timestep, and yes, dave phoned yesterday to point out that I had left the black cap on the motor which is aparently not a good idea, but that was the only mistake I made... I think...
I am having a minor issue with the deck since my fiddlings but it seems it isn't a problem and fixable. I'm fairly useless at this sort of thing, but I managed to do it all with only a slight hicup, and a completely dismantled and rebuilt the whole deck!
I wouldn't worry about the legistics of it if your thinking about doing 1210 mods your self ... Once you get your head round what's what, they are very simple in the way they are put together really... Apart from the stock arm, nothing seems to fiddley to me!


Marco, isn't your deck just a gloss black? Peter said metalic, the mk5 seems an expensive route to tak if it's just going to be modded ... I think it was you who told me that when I first looked into this!!

Hi Hamish,

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Marco, isn't your deck just a gloss black?

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Nope; it has a speckled black gloss metallic finish, which makes it look rather sexy. Most people remark on it, as did Dave when he first saw it ;)

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the mk5 seems an expensive route to tak if it's just going to be modded ... I think it was you who told me that when I first looked into this!!

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I completely agree. However, as I intended mine to be a 'deck for life', I just wanted the nicest looking brand new one I could find - purely from an aesthetic point of view, nothing else :)

I think my MK5G cost around £550 brand new in its standard guise.

Marco.

So my latest upgrade isnt something your are likely to do then marco... Shame I was hoping to ge some support and following for my latest business plan - "chavyotechie.com"
;)

It does look good in the speckled black '

Is removing the plastic cover appropriate to the MN bearing or is it another tweak ?

It's aparently essential, and didn't read the instructions properly, despite them being very clear!
I haven't re atached the dust cover under the platter either, martin comented he thought it made some difference to the sound so I thought I might as well follow suit, although I haven't noticed any difference as I haven't tested it, it did see logical that a bit of shity thin plastic might not do any good and as it is unlikely to cause a problem not being there...

I took both off

It sounds a bit more open ! im leaving them off i think:)

Looking good Hamish, it's encouraging me to go down the Technics route in the future, i have just found my old Luxman PD 290 D drive TT, i bought it new in 1983 of there abouts, might just sell it on and add the money to my 1210 pot.

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Originally Posted by Jonboy

Looking good Hamish, it's encouraging me to go down the Technics route in the future, i have just found my old Luxman PD 290 D drive TT, i bought it new in 1983 of there abouts, might just sell it on and add the money to my 1210 pot.

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Buy mine!:)

Looks excellent, Hamish, well done. I had thought the wiring might have been a tricky swap but it seems not. I found that leaving out the motor cover and the plastic tray under the platter just helps with soundstage portrayal and, since I'm not a DJ who's going to get it all mucky, there's no danger of getting it mucky.

By the way, you should have kept the microswitch so that you could modify the on/off switch as a strobe-off like mine.

I have kept the switch, that's a pretty good idea ... I don't supose you took a photo when you did it?... Or could give me very simple instruction?

Hamish - I didn't do it, Dave did it for me when I bought the deck. It should be very straightforward, especially as you have already changed the strobe LED to a blue one. Follow either wire from the LED (it doesn't matter which), cut it and wire the microswitch in series to break the connection. You will then have a strobe-off function.

Yes I guess it is that simple... Coolio, i just need to get my soldering iron workin!
Cheers!

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Originally Posted by hamish

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/w...l/P1010517.jpg

thank you for my a kind of blue 180g xmas pressie dan... this was its first play... it seemed remarkably appropriate!

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actually 200g if I remember correctly ;)

but anyway, glad you like it... your TT is lookin great.

what are you up to Saturday? I'm be about on the afternoon, and I'd love to hear it, and of course have a proper nose round your house :lol:

I could even bring some records!

Hmm your timing is pretty poor dan Saturday afternoon/night I'm going to a mates leaving doo BBQ/bouncy castle extraveganza! When and how long are you around for?

ah never mind then...
I'm only home for one afternoon, and then off out with Tom & Tamer, and back home next morning...

another time eh

You out in Worcester for the night, there seems to be a plan to head down heros/fly/cellar at some point, although prob not until late evening... Where are you likely to be headed?

dunno, I'm meeting a couple of chaps I'm not sure you know, Tom & Tamer at the cellar at 8.30, probably be around for a while.

Coolio, we will prob see you at some point then!! Keep me posted with your movements!!

Marco,
The motor is unique to technics and was way ahead of it's time when it was developed some 25 years ago now. I have already been there! the supply of motor parts is still a closely guarded secret and no one will say where the parts are made or come from. The motor is not used in any other TT to my knowledge.

Hi Mike,

Interesting... The superb quality of the motor unit was always the reason why I bought the SL-1210, and thus it formed the basis of my embarking on the project of modifying the Technics to become a truly world-class turntable.

Your fundamentally superb modifications, such as the bearing and (forthcoming) new platter have (and will) be instrumental in the above becoming a reality!

Marco.

P.S You have a PM :)

I was told that the deck is made in huge batches and then stockpiled while the production line is diverted to other duties. A long time ago I was told this and I can't remember whether it came from an ex-technics UK sales manager or not...

I doubt Technics themselves thought the deck would have lasted in production this long..

The reason that the SL1200 MKxx sells for the low price it does, is that the amortisation of design and tooling costs has long since ceased. I do not believe that anyone would undertake a design of this type again and expect a return on investment, predicated on the relatively short production runs to be expected. The whole secret of the excellent speed and stabillity of the motor lies in the clever design of the 16 pole radially magnetised isotropic ferite magnet and the 12 pole coil assembly which in turn is switched by the 8 pole rotor acting on three position sense-coil pairs.

I put out a call for quotes for a similar magnet but was told the tooling and magnetising setup would not be viable for anything under about 5,000 units. This is why all the units made today are belt drive, the simple motors are cheap and easy to buy in.

Hi Mike,

Interesting stuff! I've seen that information mentioned before, but it's good to have it succinctly summarised in a single post - one to save for future reference, me thinks :)

I've always said that the SL-1200/1210 should only be viewed by audiophiles/turntable enthusiasts as a superb motor unit surrounded by some 'free bits' which allows the playing of records to an 'adequate' standard.

However, it's only when those 'free bits' are modified and upgraded that it then becomes a high quality hi-fi turntable - and when modification is taken to the highest level (as with your bearing and platter mods, along with PSUs, tonearms, etc) a rather serious one at that!

Marco.

A shame Technics didn't develop this version of their motor unit as an OEM product, as they did in the early days with varying results (great at best, speed-hunting disaster at worst).

i have a donor for my repairs, happy days..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...#ht_526wt_1165

Well done Hamish. Are you going to start with just swapping the main motor PCB?

Yeah, have had a few chats with dave and mike on vinyl engine and have come to the conclusion it's a integrated circuit issue... Dave has said he can fix my old pcb too so I will end up with 2 working tables... I already have a buyer for it too... So happy days... I should only loose maybe £30 for my balls up, so I'm pretty chuffed ... To top it off I will end up with a lid for mine for cat protection, and as those go or around £30 all in all i'm on to a winner!

Excellent Hamish ' happy days indeed

i must say you've had some bad luck lately ' now perhaps you can settle down and just enjoy playing records:)

It's always the way with me and hifi... Great luck or shit out of luck...