Looking to change my platter :eyebrows:
1210mk11
I see Mike New does the new ETP design
Anyone tried one ?
Any alternative makes available ?
Printable View
Looking to change my platter :eyebrows:
1210mk11
I see Mike New does the new ETP design
Anyone tried one ?
Any alternative makes available ?
I have been thinking about this for the future upgrade path, and I think I have narrowed my choice down the the Funk Firm Achroplat. I am sure that by the time I get round to buying one, there will be something better out on the market.
Moderate mass, non magnetic, self damping and a similar material impedance to vinyl records, I think one would struggle conceive of a notionally better platter than the Funk one.
Has anyone compared any of these über platters with the standard one plus Funk Achromat simply bonded into place using a thin smear of Vaseline (as Funk recommend)? Having been through the Technics thing, I am convinced that its shortcomings are partly due to structural weaknesses in the part of the chassis where the bearing is fixed, and in the platter itself which (on a microgroove scale) would seem to be rather floppy. It would be fascinating to subject the standard platter to laser scanning structural analysis. The chassis weakness is partly addressed by the use of a Mike New bearing, which itself provides structural integrity (up to a point) to the chassis in the bearing well. Floppiness aside, there does not appear to be much wrong with the standard platter that can't be fixed with a strengthening layer on top like an Achromat. Someone in the States produced a machined plastic (I can't remember what sort) mat that actually bolted to the original platter - I have no idea how this sounds in practice, but in terms of engineering and design seems to be a good thing to do.
Anyway, just my thoughts which are not intended to criticise platters from either Funk Firm or Mike New.
The Mike New ETP is top notch and I'm very happy with it. I tried different mats but found the best and most right sound to my ears was with the stock techie softer 3mm mat (not the horrid rock had 5mm techie 'heavy' mat). Mike posted a very early review from someone who was one of the first to 'test' the ETP platter where they too expressed best result to their ears being with the stock 3mm softer mat. The ETP feels reassuring solid, is well made and non resonant. It has a nice weight to it but no where near the mass of Mikes copper bonded platters (which some feel might be a bit too massy). John (Prestonchipfryer) purchased his ETP before I did and we shared a few pm's before I took the plunge. I was in no doubt that it would be an improvement over the stock platter and it most definately is. The funk firm platter as owned by Marco, Martin T and others is also said to be very good too. Swapping out trying different platters isnt an option for most - ultimately its about taking a punt as either of these will be better than stock option. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
I phoned Funk today and they said as I use a mike new bearing they think the bearing taper is bigger so the funk wont fit
I just ordered a Mike NEW ETP :eyebrows:
Marco uses a Funk platter with a MN bearing I believe...
Strange :scratch: unless they made one special for MarcoQuote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Is Marcos the original or the new MK2 that come out
Funk quoted me £840
Mike New £605 + the UK extras :(
So does MartinTQuote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Don't MRCU sell the MN bearing for 450 quid or thereabouts Al? :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
Linky?:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
They're talking about platters mate, not bearings.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
Mental isn't it?
£650 for a platter, is it me?
I hear ya Tony - Mike New bearing £465ish, ETP £650 aprox, (funk quoted £840 for one of their platters) :eek: then there's external power supply, cartridge, decent arm - Yep ! It's scary but in my experience worth it There are so many variables to be considered and it's not like these items are mass produced which would bring cost down.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
Just go easy, dont try to do it all at once, enjoy the music and dont lose too much sleep ! ;)
Subliminal insertion of the word 'bearing' after Mike New I guess :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
T'is a lot of dosh in't it. I was angling for a Vantage Audio platter which was a little more accessible pricewise, until they went tits up :eyebrows:
Bet you are glad you did all this research first and didn't rush in to anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
I'm going for a arm upgrade, either a SH Jelco or a stock arm re-wire job. I can't see me going down the MC road but you never know which is why I'm veering towards the Jelco rather than stock re-wire.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieGong
After that though I'm done.
They're not mass produced. Very much hand crafted. The old Funk platter is used by Marco and others with the Mike New bearing. Goodness only knows what Arthur has been smoking - or if there is a difference, but I think Marco, Neil and Martin (at least 2 of whom have MN bearings) were due to try the new Funk platter. I trust it was Arthur you spoke to Al, and not the tea lady. Apart from platter material itself, the machining process and stressing and the likes, there is the issue of balance made tricky by the need for castings or machinings (the stock techie is cast), and the consequent affect on the servo loading.
Anyway - the bearing fit is only a hub - so given the "hand made" element will be easy to do a "Mike New Special". But I would be near certain there is no difference and one size fits all.
Although I still haven't seen a pic in the public domain, I know Neil has one to evaluate, so it can no longer be a NATO secret, that Arthur has moved onto composite materials from Acrylic this time, using bonded glass (using some special glue he keeps hidden in a draw) in itself bonded to acrylic. Dead. Rigid. Made me want one for my PT - which reminds me I need to chase up on this.
Of course, as I have noted before, by the time you have bought a platter, bearing, power supply, arm, feet and mat, you could have bought another turntable. It's no longer an SL1210 - just a custom build using a technics 2nd-hand DD motor :)
There are other alternatives at the lower end of the price range.
Inspire HiFi will sell you just the platter off one of there Technics based TT’s.
They do a solid Alloy job which is in the price area of those already mentioned but they also do a modified Techie platter for about £250 like this one.
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps95e7e9f2.jpg
I am personally looking at the possibility of adapting a Pro-Ject RPM 9 Platter and bearing to work with the Technics Motor/Magnet arrangement. Its early days and I need some bits to take accurate measurements, but if it's feasible would make an interesting alternative approach – 38mm Acrylic platter with an inverted bearing running on a 10mm ceramic tipped spindle! :eyebrows:
There's another thread on here discussing arm wires - with a significant number concluding it is not the most cost effective thing to do. I find a certain wry amusement here (it is mostly the cable-phobic coming to that conclusion). I am not keen on getting carried away with cable "phoo", as I think many realise, but I think speaker cables important, and IC's for real, surely the most real of all the IC's, and the one which is most likely to affect the tiny wee signals that travel down to the amplifier is the tonearm cable. That said - assuming the original wiring is not faulty, improving the wiring on an arm is not where most of the improvement is to be had. It's not where there is the most bang for buck. When I sent my dieing Mission 774 down to A K for a rewire and got an F5 back, the difference in sound between the 2 arms had nothing to do with the wires used in the F5. Not irrelevant - but the final icing on the cake. Spending any significant amount on rewiring a "basic" arm (and I think most would accept the stock arm on the Techie falls into that category) is not going to change it into an SMEV or a Grace, nor an Fx2.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
This link goes to Mikes web site
http://www.mikenewaudio.com/
And this is the ETP platter I have ordered
How do you know how long I have been looking prior to posting this topic :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
That's interesting Ken, thank you. The other reason I like the Vantage platter is because it looks like the standard item ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwin
Well... Let's put this into perspective: how much do you think Linn would charge for a brand new platter (top and sub) for an LP12 - or how much would SME, Kuzma, Clearaudio (or any other high-end T/T manufacturer) charge for a replacement platter for one of their turntables, if you wanted one for whatever reason, and they were willing to supply you?Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
My guess is a damn sight more than £650! ;)
The (bespoke-made) Funk Firm platter for the Technics is every bit as high-quality an item as that belonging to any of the above T/Ts.
Marco.
Makes no odds if one doesn't have that kind of money to throw about though Marco. As with buying any component, one must be realistic. Any improvement in SQ is going to be good for the soul so if that goal can be attained for less money then it is a no-brainer ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I completely agree, Dave.
The point I was making to Tony is that the price of the Funk platter is no more "mental" than any other - indeed, compared with some, it's likely to be rather 'sane'! ;)
Marco.
Your OP suggests that it wasn't very long if you were not already aware of the Funk option - there has been quite extensive discussion of it on this very forum (and other alternatives)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
I was aware of the Funk platter but not the price hence the phone call, its not on funks web siteQuote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Seems strange I have to justify posting
Will add further comments later
Personally I was in the same boat regarding Mikes bearing however since he went into partnership with David Brooks the price of his bearing has dropped to a more attainable level, which changes things a little. If someone were to bring to market a replacemeent acrylic platter for the Techie priced around the 250 to 300 quid mark I reckon they'd be snapped up :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Indeed, although it may or may not perform to the same standard as the Funk one. It also *could* sound worse than the original Technics platter, if the design has not been thought out properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
On the other hand, you might be lucky and it could be the best thing since sliced bread. It depends on whether you can afford to speculate with £300, in order to find out... ;)
Me? I'd save up a while longer and buy a known quantity that has been proven to work - whether that known quantity was a Funk platter or one from Mike New.
Marco.
Fair enough. I'm not slighting either manufacturer by the way, this is all about affordable alternatives. I would hope that anyone who brought such a product to market would do their homework first otherwise they'd be on a hiding to nothing, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Indeed, but the point is, can you afford to take the chance and throw away your £300? I doubt that such a specialised item, aimed at, in the grand scheme of things, a tiny audience, would ever be sold on a 'sale or return' basis. Effectively, if it didn't work out, you'd be waving bye-bye to your money.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
At least if you bought a Mike New or Funk platter, and disliked it, sonically, (which is extremely unlikely if you were upgrading from a stock Technics platter), there would be an established user-base to sell it on to, who are aware of the efficacy of those products. That would very unlikely be the case with an unknown product only recently brought onto the market by a new company.
In any case, the point is moot, as I don't believe that a bespoke platter, of requisite quality, could be produced commercially for £300 by any company who had a notion of turning a workable profit.
Marco.
Not if bought brand new via mail order - they have to give you 14 days by law assuming it originates in the EECQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
User bases build up over time due to reputation they don't just magically appear, even Mike and Arthur had to start somewhere. You may be correct regarding £300 not being a commercially viable target, however stranger things have happened. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Finally I can comment on this - I wasn't prepared to say anything before hand as I don't usually reveal any info relating to on going reviews before publishing them (I won't be commenting further on the Funk mk2 by the way).Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
I am in the process of doing a whole Technics related uber review - early stages but under way finally - and I have a new MK2 Funk Platter in as part of the review and it will work on any modified Technics bearing and the original bearing but it will not work with any of the existing Mike New bearings as Mike's bearing does not accurately match the profile of the original Technics bearing, so sadly the new Funk MK2 platter which does won't fit the Mike New bearing as it exists now.
When I say won't fit it will go on, but the Funk mk2 Platter will rock back and forward as there is a gap when sitting on a Mike New bearing. I really wanted to hear what the Funk MK2 sounds like on the MN bearing but alas I can't just as well I bought a Vantage Audio modified bearing (though I also have a Technics fitted with original bearing too) - though based on all the issues with VA at the minute it won't officially be part of the review.
Regards Neil
That is a good point Martin ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
The market for bespoke platters for the Techie is finite and perhaps producing such an item which retails for £300 is unrealistic, but it would be a fascinating project to explore for someone with the skills and the facilities.
Indeed - and I'll leave it there, as I've made my point :)Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
Marco.
My understanding is several have tried and failed as there is a key part of the plater assembly that is very hard and time consuming to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
The bit with the red circle, which is a key component to driving the platter.
http://www.djresource.eu/images/topi...platterins.jpg
Regards Neil
Well, if that is the case Neil then I will be sticking with the original platter for a while. I will consider trialing the Inspire item when funds allow, unless a secondhand Vantage platter comes up in the meantime ;)
Yes it is sadly, and at the end of the day everyone out there making Technics related stuff are not beholden to each other to make interchangeable items with anyone else products but instead follow their own ideas and if some work with others great and if not then one needs to decide whose approach best suits their listening/system preferences and buy into that.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
Regards Neil
I asked Mike a week ago to send me a platter, you can borrow it when it arrives, sorry just noted you ordered one anyway!Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
When I say won't fit it will go on, but the Funk mk2 Platter will rock back and forward as there is a gap when sitting on a Mike New bearing. I really wanted to hear what the Funk MK2 sounds like on the MN bearing but alas I can't just as well I bought a Vantage Audio modified bearing (though I also have a Technics fitted with original bearing too) - though based on all the issues with VA at the minute it won't officially be part of the review.
That's strange!!
My MN-bearing fitted absolutely perfect to the original platter, so I presume that the taper of the MN-bearing and the taper of the original bearing have identical dimensions. I have to add, that my MN copper-ally-platter was not a similar perfect fit on the MN- bearing and required a bit of vaseline (the universal aid :eyebrows:) to prevent a very slight rocking movement (apparently it's not so easy to manufacture). So if the "new" Funk-platter does not fit, it obviously is not correctly made!
Sounds odd. Funk platter fits a standard bearing because it uses a technics hub. Why would mike new make a bearing that doesn't fit a standard platter. Does he make 2 different types - one for his platters and one for standard technics hubs? :scratch:
Perhaps you could take this up with Arthur to see what he has to say about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
I thought this would cause some heat when Al revealed this information, which I discovered in the course of preliminary review work. I have just removed the Mike New bearing from the turntable it was fitted into and I have a spare Technics bearing sitting here beside me. Funk Platter mk2 fits the standard Technics bearing perfectly with no issues what so ever, fit it onto the Mike New and it rocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
When I spoke to Arthur about this he said that the taper on a MN bearing maybe did not match the exact profile of the Technics bearing and that was why it was rocking. Looking at the two side by side there are differences in spindle length and the actual taper that the bearing fits on. The Technics bearing the taper does not go right to the bottom of the spindle and in the case of the MN the taper does. I am not able to say if it is this fact that is causing the issue or something else. One does not need grease to fit the Funk Plater mk2 it just fits but I am aware of the issues re having to use grease or Vaseline to fit a Mike New metal platter on a Mike New bearing - I had to do this myself.
I too wondered why a standard Technics platter fits on a Mike New bearing and the Funk doesn't. I don't have an original MK1 Funk Platter here to compare it to but they are very different designs and I am not going to say how.
Regards Neil
This is not a slight rock but quite a pronounced one.Quote:
Originally Posted by krugdoktor
Regards Neil
£650/£840 is quite taking the preverbial.
I think Richard's beaten you to it, mate....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpinkman
The news of the compatibility issue with the MN bearing is disappointing, for obvious reasons, but perhaps none more so than for the fact that, given how fundamentally HUGE an improvement the MN bearing provides over a stock Technics bearing, I strongly suspect that a Techy fitted with an MN bearing and MKI Funk platter, would outperform one fitted with a MK II Funk platter and stock Technics bearing...
If the new Funk platter is compatible with any of the other upgraded bearings on the market (Vantage, etc), which I'm sorry if I missed you mentioning, Neil, then that *may* level the playing field.
Of course, the only way to know for sure is to carry out the necessary comparisons, but as far as I'm concerned, the standard hierarchical upgrade path for the Technics, if the goal is achieving ultimate sonic performance, would always feature a bearing upgrade before a platter one.
Marco.
How so, Andy - did you not read what I wrote on post #23? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan
Marco.
It seems odd that the original Funk platter will quite happily mate to a MN bearing and yet the mkII doesn't, rather points to an issue with the design or manufacture of the platter rather than an issue with the bearing methinks. Arthur needs to sort this asap unless he is happy to limit its appeal :eyebrows:
My MN-bearing is from 2009, the platter was bought in 2012, so maybe MN changed the profile of the bearing taper in the meantime. I have to add the sound produced by MN-bearing and MN-platter is fantastic, the only thing that worries me is the "not perfect" fit between MN-bearing and MN-platter whilst the (2009) MN-bearing fits like a glove onto the original platter. BTW I also tried to fit the MN-plater to the original bearing (outside the turntable) and experienced the same (slight) rocking.